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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 5682213" data-attributes="member: 4937">Well, we don't have to use hyberbole to find the problem.  Yes, it is possible to waste a lot of time with a party that is being paranoid or even paranoid with good cause because the DM is playing 'gotcha'.  But its not essential.  A corridor may take a lot of game time to check, but the real time wasted is usually little more than making the proposition that you will use some simple process to check it.  (Of course, too much reverse logic here is bad, and likely metagaming by the DM.)Exactly.  Grimtooth and his ilk helped ruin traps.  One of my pet peeves with the Grimtooth traps were that didn't seem to exist prior to the PC's triggering them.  Pools of acid didn't release noticable fumes.  Pits filled with acid didn't seep into the ground water and lose potency over time.  Nozzles didn't clog up.  Hinges didn't rust.  Electrical charges didn't disperse.  Wires didn't rust.  Glass didn't accumulate dust and dirt, but remained spotlessly clean.  Razors remained razor sharp.  Ropes didn't rot.  Delicately balanced weights didn't fall over for centuries until the PC's breathed on them.  Grimtooth's dungeons contained ramshakle boats which floated for centuries in underground lakes but which would mysteriously disentigrate a few rounds after they taken out from shore and only if taken out from shore.   I hate all of that.  There is a certain amount of that which is required for the trope, because as I said, no trap would work for long on a realistic basis, but ignoring reality principly on the basis of your desire to create inescapable death traps is pure ego gaming on the DM's part.  The DM should be utilizing the fact that traps aren't perfect to create interesting interactions, not making traps unrealisticly perfect just to make them work.  Creating inescapable death traps is easy; do DM has a basis for bragging on those grounds.  Grimtooth's gloating schtick as if what was being presented was creative and worthy of great acclaim irritated me to no end.I also hate death traps in living quarters or well travelled corridors as if the owner was willing to put up with risking death when stumbling around at night to find the chamber pot.  You sometimes get the impression from some designers that they think having a randomly distributed 100' spiked pit traps on ordinary city streets would be the height of good design.  IMO, a player shouldn't have to guess whether the evil altar inflicts a curse on whoever dares descrecrate it (they all do), and shouldn't have to guess whether the treasure chamber contains lethal death traps (they all do), but equally shouldn't have guess when he needs to take precautions from traps because the traps only occur in the expected places.  In a since, every good trap in my opinion has a neon sign somewhere nearby that says, "Danger: Big Trap Over Here".  That sign might be anything from, "You open the secret door and see a treasure chamber, with a mound of gold and jewels spilling out of a chest on the other side of the room." to "There is a tiled floor and one of the tiles has been lifted by an upthrust spear from which dangles the rib cage of a humanoid creature." Maybe for your more experienced players with higher level characters, that neon sign is currently turned off, and might even be partially hidden by ivy, but I don't think its fair for DM's to leave it to the PC's to be guessing when to search for a trap.  (And really, if you are going to conceal the signs a little, then the trap better be relatively minor for the character level.)  The unusualness of the situation should suggest the need.  Indiana Jones is ran by an experienced player, and an experienced DM.  He clearly is able to read the mind of the DM, and clearly the DM is working to make that easy by putting the traps in the situations where you'd anticipate them if you are no great fool.  "There's a pit around here somewhere" is also interesting play, IMO, provided the somewhere is a reasonably constrainted space.</blockquote>

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