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Message: <blockquote data-quote="IronWolf" data-source="post: 5816853" data-attributes="member: 21076">It certainly is an apples and oranges comparison though. Dragon and Dungeon seem to be a shadow of their former selves. Sure they are bundled and have some value, but I wonder how many people subscribe to DDI purely for Dragon and Dungeon access? We would need to know that for true apples to apples comparisons, otherwise, yes, I think the product sub numbers you are using are quite different than what the Dragon/Dungeon subscriptions numbers were back in the day.People are subscribing to DDI for the character builder, rules compendium, etc with the extra perk of Dragon and Dungeon being included. At least that is how it looks from where I sit. Of course I have no proof of that, but when I hear DDI mentioned it always seems centered around the electronic tools (or people complaining about a lackluster Dragon/Dungeon).Heck, I hope WotC succeeds with D&D Next, so I am not entirely against WotC in what they do. But they do need to step up their game if they want to stop resting on their laurels of simply being WotC the company that makes D&D.None of us have concrete numbers to throw around. Your statements are not backed by concrete stats or inside data analysis. We are all here just stating what we think based on very subjective data. It is the nature of the topic we are debating. Coupled with I know at least Joe has posted in this very thread that he agrees the lack of an OGL was not the only thing that made acceptance of 4e difficult for many. It is simply one factor. I totally agree with that as well. OGL is certainly one factor, but there were many other mis-steps WotC made along the way. It is just this is a thread about the OGL, so the conversation tends to focus on that.Yep. Several have been mentioned by these "OGL Evangelists" in this thread even.</blockquote>

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