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<blockquote data-quote="Dire Bare" data-source="post: 5963177" data-attributes="member: 18182">(EDIT:&nbsp; I should say &quot;a&quot; point rather than &quot;the&quot; point, as I don't think I've stated what Fifth Element meant by the line, only my own opinion.)The point is that both D&amp;D and the Greyhawk setting are inextricably intertwined and are both a part of the &quot;classic&quot; D&amp;D experience.&nbsp; If you want to produce a new edition that has that &quot;classic&quot; D&amp;D feel, you need to include some Greyhawk in there.But Greyhawk as a distinct setting isn't going to work as the new default setting, nor as a viable setting for a new line of books.&nbsp; Again, not a knock on quality, not disrespect, just the way it is.If you can't (at least not wisely) use Greyhawk as a whole, and yet you must include Greyhawk to gain the classic feel, the only option left is to &quot;steal&quot; some classic bits . . . especially classic bits that were not branded or strongly identified as &quot;Greyhawk&quot; back in the day.To see that as disrespect, IMO, is very silly.&nbsp; It's not the way setting design works, it's not the way literature works, mythology works, art works . . . good design is taking something classic and reworking it into something new and exciting in its own right.Did WotC succeed with that with &quot;Nerath&quot;, 4E's default setting?&nbsp; Opinions vary, of course, but that was what I LOVED about the new setting, was it gave us a lot of new awesome for my D&amp;D game, but also integrated a lot of classic awesome too, both in feel and in the specifics.&nbsp; To me, it was genius.WotC did nothing &quot;mean&quot; to Baur, and nothing &quot;disrespectful&quot; to Greyhawk or KIngdom of the Ghouls.&nbsp; Baur IS a great guy and a great designer, and Kingdom of the Ghouls IS a wonderful classic.&nbsp; But Baur doesn't own it, WotC does.&nbsp; And by choosing to revamp this classic, they are showing the original work and it's creator RESPECT, not disrespect.&nbsp; Why remake something that was crap to begin with?I could understand frustration if the 4E version was crap.&nbsp; Which it might be, I am not familiar with it.&nbsp; I remember how disappointed I was with the D&amp;D movie because it was crap.&nbsp; But the choice to have it remade, with or without Baur's involvement, does not deserve anger or being pissed off.&nbsp; Please.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Dire Bare, post: 5963177, member: 18182"] ([I]EDIT: I should say "a" point rather than "the" point, as I don't think I've stated what Fifth Element meant by the line, only my own opinion.[/I]) The point is that both D&D and the Greyhawk setting are inextricably intertwined and are both a part of the "classic" D&D experience. If you want to produce a new edition that has that "classic" D&D feel, you need to include some Greyhawk in there. But Greyhawk as a distinct setting isn't going to work as the new default setting, nor as a viable setting for a new line of books. Again, not a knock on quality, not disrespect, just the way it is. If you can't (at least not wisely) use Greyhawk as a whole, and yet you must include Greyhawk to gain the classic feel, the only option left is to "steal" some classic bits . . . especially classic bits that were not branded or strongly identified as "Greyhawk" back in the day. To see that as disrespect, IMO, is very silly. It's not the way setting design works, it's not the way literature works, mythology works, art works . . . good design is taking something classic and reworking it into something new and exciting in its own right. Did WotC succeed with that with "Nerath", 4E's default setting? Opinions vary, of course, but that was what I LOVED about the new setting, was it gave us a lot of new awesome for my D&D game, but also integrated a lot of classic awesome too, both in feel and in the specifics. To me, it was genius. WotC did nothing "mean" to Baur, and nothing "disrespectful" to Greyhawk or KIngdom of the Ghouls. Baur IS a great guy and a great designer, and Kingdom of the Ghouls IS a wonderful classic. But Baur doesn't own it, WotC does. And by choosing to revamp this classic, they are showing the original work and it's creator RESPECT, not disrespect. Why remake something that was crap to begin with? I could understand frustration if the 4E version was crap. Which it might be, I am not familiar with it. I remember how disappointed I was with the D&D movie because it was crap. But the choice to have it remade, with or without Baur's involvement, does not deserve anger or being pissed off. Please. [/QUOTE]

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