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<blockquote data-quote="Blue" data-source="post: 8959425" data-attributes="member: 20564"><p>Do they, really? So instead of +2 to DEX which gives them +1 to Hit and +1 to Damage on every one of those attacks, (as well as +1 AC, Initiative, and skills), instead they get an ability they can use once per day for an hour that takes up their Bonus action so costs them either an attack, or something better with Ki expendature.</p><p></p><p>On such a MAD class, spending a feat for Hunter's Mark is a trap option. I'm sure there are corner cases, like the DM allowing rolled ability scores and getting lots of high ones, or vHuman with a half-feat that grants the spell and pushes an odd Dex to the next modifier, or the DM only runs 1-2 combats a day so Hunter's Mark will be up for every encounter - but even there losing out on the bonus action to cast and move it hurts the monk as they have a lot to use their bonus actions for.</p><p></p><p></p><p>True, and occasionally relevant. Though usually against 2d4+mod, or 1d8+mod AND +2 AC. Levels 1-4, before Stunning Strike comes online, they are decent at damage. At 5th and beyond is where they really fall behind. And "spending 1 Ki" is all to 1/4 of your total Ki resources for the day - that doesn't move you into Striker range. Especially as that same Ki has a lot of other uses.</p><p></p><p>And that doesn't even consider that they are often something like 1d4+mod because they want to use their Bonus Action for something else, such as a 1 Ki Dodge.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Basically all of the damage calculators show monks lag further and further behind strikers in terms of damage. There's plenty of in-depth analysis out there. </p><p></p><p>Here's a couple of them. ENworld loads some of them as Media so give them a minute or two before they load - they start blank.</p><p></p><p>[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.enworld.org/threads/damage-thread.690419/#post-8717121[/URL]</p><p></p><p></p><p>Anecdotal evidence that some monks you play or run does not use Stunning Strike has no real bearing on if it's a powerful ability. And unfortunately it's one of their few defining abilities that other classes don't mimic as well. In addition to normal usage, I've used it to burn though several of a BBEG's Legendary Saves in a single round as they had bad luck with the CON saves but did <em>not</em> want to be stunned. But stunning a foe so you allies are attacking with advantage, as well as you in your next round (it stops at the end of your next round) is a really nice bonus, on top of the action denial.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Blue, post: 8959425, member: 20564"] Do they, really? So instead of +2 to DEX which gives them +1 to Hit and +1 to Damage on every one of those attacks, (as well as +1 AC, Initiative, and skills), instead they get an ability they can use once per day for an hour that takes up their Bonus action so costs them either an attack, or something better with Ki expendature. On such a MAD class, spending a feat for Hunter's Mark is a trap option. I'm sure there are corner cases, like the DM allowing rolled ability scores and getting lots of high ones, or vHuman with a half-feat that grants the spell and pushes an odd Dex to the next modifier, or the DM only runs 1-2 combats a day so Hunter's Mark will be up for every encounter - but even there losing out on the bonus action to cast and move it hurts the monk as they have a lot to use their bonus actions for. True, and occasionally relevant. Though usually against 2d4+mod, or 1d8+mod AND +2 AC. Levels 1-4, before Stunning Strike comes online, they are decent at damage. At 5th and beyond is where they really fall behind. And "spending 1 Ki" is all to 1/4 of your total Ki resources for the day - that doesn't move you into Striker range. Especially as that same Ki has a lot of other uses. And that doesn't even consider that they are often something like 1d4+mod because they want to use their Bonus Action for something else, such as a 1 Ki Dodge. Basically all of the damage calculators show monks lag further and further behind strikers in terms of damage. There's plenty of in-depth analysis out there. Here's a couple of them. ENworld loads some of them as Media so give them a minute or two before they load - they start blank. [URL unfurl="true"]https://www.enworld.org/threads/damage-thread.690419/#post-8717121[/URL] Anecdotal evidence that some monks you play or run does not use Stunning Strike has no real bearing on if it's a powerful ability. And unfortunately it's one of their few defining abilities that other classes don't mimic as well. In addition to normal usage, I've used it to burn though several of a BBEG's Legendary Saves in a single round as they had bad luck with the CON saves but did [I]not[/I] want to be stunned. But stunning a foe so you allies are attacking with advantage, as well as you in your next round (it stops at the end of your next round) is a really nice bonus, on top of the action denial. [/QUOTE]
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