Hordes: An Alternative to Minions

[gyor]

Some people find minions no real challenge and uninteresting so I prepose an Alternative, Hordes.

Hordes are inspired by the crowd mechanic city scape. They function similarly to swarms, but with a rules adjustment for none tiny creatures. Each hit point represents a creature and the horde takes up an extra space for each hitpoint. The swarm attacks as one with a single attack roll, against everyone inside and beside the horde. You could also have unique hordes like Orc Archers that have a large area attack ranged attack. Another horde could be of evil clerics that have combined thier magic powers, the larger horde, the more powerful the magic they can collectively cast.

This also allows it to scale easily, just vary the size of the horde.

This would also make summoning large undead hordes for necromancers less of a pain in the butt for everyone else, it'd be like an attackable zone, that skrinks with damage, with spells like animate undead healing the horde and restoring its size and power.

Anyone like this idea?

 

[Ahnehnois]

Sounds in concept like mobs (DMGII), which I think was a better implementation. But the basic idea of taking groups of creatures that aren't individually threatening and abstractly treating them as a unit is not a bad one.

 

[dkyle]

I've done stuff like this in 4E. A bunch of "minions" with a shared HP pool. The total HP pool was equivalent to a standard monster, and supposing I had 5 minions, each fifth of that HP would remove one of the minions. It works all right, but I don't feel that it is necessarily "better" than minions. It ends up with some wonkiness of its own. For example, if three are caught in an AoE, do you remove triple the damage of the AoE from the HP total, or just one multiple because it's really just one "creature"? And either way, if the damage is only enough to eliminate one or two of them, which one(s) actually get removed.

The big difference from what you propose was that I had each minion attack like a normal minion. Without that, I'm not sure a "Horde" is sufficiently different from a Swarm. Could easily have a Large swarm become Medium when bloodied, for example. The big difference for Minions is that they can pack a lot of offensive firepower if not dealt with, and dealing with them scales down their damage output. Reducing the size of a Horde reduces the potential AoE of their attacks, of course, but it doesn't really reduce the threat of it very much.

 

[SKyOdin]

I certainly like the idea of a large group of people or medium sized monsters counting as a single monster mechanically similar to a swarm. Mobs in 3E were that, and I have always thought that was a concept that should have been brought back and expanded upon more. It is probably the best way to handle a large angry mob with pitchforks, a disciplined phalanx of pikemen, or a thick group of hungry zombies.

However, I don't think they should replace minions wholesale. Minions have their place. Furthermore, I think your horde solution is unnecessarily complex. There is no reason you have to treat the horde as a bunch of minions you kill one by one. In fact, mechanically it would lead to counter-intuitive results. To be precise, an area of effect attack would be only as effective against a horde as just swinging a sword at it. The extra damage of area of effect attacks and reduced effects of single target attacks works well with swarms, but wouldn't apply to your model for hordes.

It would be much simpler to use the same rules as swarms: the group counts as a single creature with a normal hit point total. When it loses all of its hitpoints, it dissipates. I see no reason to make things any more complicated.

 

[gyor]

I might the hp equals a minion as fluff mostly. The point on how to deal with area attacks is a good one. I also liked setting the shrinking to blooded and the dispating at 0.

I do like the idea of magic casting hordes, a kind of group spellcasting, like an evil order of mages.

 

[Zaukrie]

minions and hordes fill different niches.

 

[kinem]

No minions. No hordes.

Just less steep PC advancement + monsters flanking PCs + monsters aiding each other.

 

[Minigiant]

I think Minions and Swarms are enough. Just have the rules well written in the DMG.

A couple hopelessly pathetic enemies= a couple minions. OHKOs.

A lot of hopelessly pathetic enemies= a swarm. Greater than 1 hit points. Larger size.

 

[hanez]

I like minions better. And I dont even like 4e

 

[Tony Vargas]

Mobs or Throngs - swarms of medium creatures, are already in 4e.

I've found they work well (as do swarms), in addition to minions. The party fights a few minions, no problem. They fight a lot more, anoying, but no problem, as they press on. Then they meet the swarms that can be far more dangerous than their individual members.

When the PCs successfully disperse a swarm (mob/throng), scatter minions in and around it's space after you remove it.


Can be pretty cool, though a Controller stomps all over 'em.