Hordes of the Abyss.

[JoeGKushner]

So I'm just paging through the book now.

They deliberately made the demon lords weaker.

Something about making them more viable for 20th level play as opposed to epic play.

They also include demon lords from Dragon, and yes, they appear to be weaker too. Lady of Fungi I think is now CR 21.

And they reuse art like the cover from Dungeon and the old Orcus piece.

On a skim I am not happy.

 

[glass]

So I'm just paging through the book now.

They deliberately made the demon lords weaker.

I thought they were going to make them scalable to different CRs. Did they not do that?


glass.

 

[Tsillanabor]

Crud-I thought the BoVD versions were too weak already myself.

 

[DaveMage]

So I'm just paging through the book now.

They deliberately made the demon lords weaker.

Something about making them more viable for 20th level play as opposed to epic play.

They also include demon lords from Dragon, and yes, they appear to be weaker too. Lady of Fungi I think is now CR 21.

And they reuse art like the cover from Dungeon and the old Orcus piece.

On a skim I am not happy.

I hope what glass said is true, because wimpy demon lords would be a major disappointment for me.

 

[Piratecat]

Erik Mona, come give us insight! I don't care that it's 5am in Seattle, we want you now. . .

What if I say "Erik Erik Erik"?

 

[Piratecat]

Crap. Erik's now standing behind me in his pajamas, and he looks pissed.

 

[Einan]

Just Thank God he wears pajamas...

Einan

 

[Piratecat]

If anyone makes a "Rod of Orcus" joke about now, they're so getting banned.

Ahem.

Back on topic.

 

[Evilhalfling]

Hurah for more wimpy demon lords!
The highest level I have ever played to, is my current 16th level game.
Epic stats have no real use for me. If I want unkillable Lords, I will just handwave unkillability -
I will prolly use the stated creatures as Avatars - or due to my revised cosmology as lesser lords (which has only 6 true lords that are effectivley evil gods) - handwaving applied.

However...
CR 21 does seem a little low - if 2 Balors can kill it is it really a lord?
Scalable seems like a better option, at least in dungeon it would seem to take up little space.

 

[Garnfellow]

Depowering the demon lords (especially compared to "official" Dragon versions) is extremely unexpected, but does make a certain amount of sense. People HATED Deities and Demigods is part because it spent so much space on stat blocks that hardly anyone would ever use. Personally, I have no interest in running an epic campaign, and I think that I am part of the vast majority of players here. High level, yes, I'd like to do that, but nothing much above 21st level or so.

So as much as I might enjoy gawking at a CR 36 Orcus, at the end of the day all those epic stats are useless to me.

I would have expected Paizo and WotC to be more in synch on something this. Maybe Erik or James can shed more light on to this.