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<blockquote data-quote="JoeGKushner" data-source="post: 2850820" data-attributes="member: 1129">Can't list anything till I get home. Don't have the book with me.One of my biggest problems with nerfing the demon lords isn't necessarily the demon lords. It's what happens to the devils.The devils have a lot more unique ranks and heirarchy in their field than the demons do. For demons, it's pretty much iether you're named, standard, or lunch. For devils, we have all sorts of unique individuals that fall into different camps.If a devil lord/prince is CR 20, what's his duke or champions? CR 15? Why not use a pit fiend then?I can see why it&nbsp; was done. It's actually a good reason if we assume that any game that gets to near epic STOPs at near epic despite the epic rules you know, actually being in the DMG this time around (3.5) but for coolness.... it looks like it's up to Necromancer Games to keep Orcus tough.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="JoeGKushner, post: 2850820, member: 1129"] Can't list anything till I get home. Don't have the book with me. One of my biggest problems with nerfing the demon lords isn't necessarily the demon lords. It's what happens to the devils. The devils have a lot more unique ranks and heirarchy in their field than the demons do. For demons, it's pretty much iether you're named, standard, or lunch. For devils, we have all sorts of unique individuals that fall into different camps. If a devil lord/prince is CR 20, what's his duke or champions? CR 15? Why not use a pit fiend then? I can see why it was done. It's actually a good reason if we assume that any game that gets to near epic STOPs at near epic despite the epic rules you know, actually being in the DMG this time around (3.5) but for coolness.... it looks like it's up to Necromancer Games to keep Orcus tough. [/QUOTE]

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