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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GQuail" data-source="post: 2852968" data-attributes="member: 30709">Ah, I kinda see your logic now: there's no denying a creature created a CR 27 and a creature who started out 17 and was given NPC levels/HD upped till he hit CR 27 are not going to be the same kind of thing.   Templates can kinda fill this void, but templates suited to the kind of level you're after aren't common.I stand by my point, however, that it's easier on the DM to try and up a monster to that kind of power than it is to try and downgrade it.  Faced with the chocie of where to stick the stats of such NPCs, I think the route that will be potentially of use to more DMs is the best one.I haev an advantage on these kind of problems in tha tmy players aren't D&D experts: only one really has a huge history of playing the game, the others have mainly learned through me and the books I've given them to read.  This means that whil they were scared when a Demon Princess cropped up in my game, they had no idea if they were CR 12 scared, CR 24 scared or CR 48 scared.  If I was dealing with people with lots of experience in Greyhawk, Planescape or what have you, perhaps I'd get more resistance if I decided my homebrew's Orcus was only just post-epic and sub-servient to a deity of death, but my group have no canon to get hung up upon.  ;-)</blockquote>