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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Beowolf" data-source="post: 2853416" data-attributes="member: 18770">this is just an idea to all thoses who dont like the epic cr demons and such, but just cause your pcs arnt strong enoung to take on a demon lord by themselves dosent mean it cant be done and that the stats for the deamon are useless. pcs can get help from other higher level charachters and monsters, or mabye some sort of special magic item that will greatly help defeating the demon or limiting some of its most deadly powers. who ever said that pcs cant find some celestials willing to help them kill a demon lord? sure you cant take him on cause your group of 4 18th lvl pcs dont stand a chance but what about a group of 4 18th lvl pcs , an assortment of higherlevel npcs, some top notch celestials, a metalic wyrm or two and a holy artifact from the local grand temple? demon lords never fight alone they got their own retuine to fight along side them. pcs just have to think the same way, cant beat him one on one but you can when you take him on with your own army.sure the combat and stats will be a nightmare  but epic already does that anyway</blockquote>