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Message: <blockquote data-quote="BOZ" data-source="post: 2853829" data-attributes="member: 1241">I'll agree, this is not exactly cool.  Not terrible, but not cool either.  Perhaps the designers submitted these pieces in the art order as samples of what to do, and the art department got lazy, saying, "hey, these are perfectly good pieces, why do new ones?"  well, except for the BoVD orcus - what's up with that?  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />  fat slobby orcus is da man!  Yeenoghu and Juiblex in BoVD were OK, but at least they did not reuse the Demogorgon from that book.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />  what actual percentage of the book's art is recycled?with any luck, maybe they will hire you on as a consultant for FC3. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />kickass!  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  how long is this list?  like as in, percentage of a page?  it's in the appendix i'm assuming?  that's one of the cool things that the folks around here helped contribute to.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Faces of Evil: The Fiends, page 61:"The Mors Mysterium Nominum book says she is also the mother of Graz'zt, Lupercio, and Vucarik of Chains."This is the only quote I'm aware of, linking Pale Night as the mother of any specific demons.  OK, a reference book makes a possibly dubious claim, but especially when you are talking about shifty ol' demons, this does not necessarily make it a true fact.  I like the way she's presented in FC1.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />no... it simply isn't.  the MM has a whole chapter dedicated to increasing a creature's power level.  it says nothing at all about making a creature weaker, so if you want to do that, it's DIY.eh heh heh heh heh heh!  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  if you won't have Piratecat, i could make myself available!   <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/paranoid.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":uhoh:" title="Paranoid    :uhoh:" data-shortname=":uhoh:" />good question, old pal.  those names are very off-putting for me as well.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />another good question!  it would be so neato keen to have some demon lord minis.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />actually, i'll agree with you there.  balors were ramped up quite a bit to make them basically the toughest non-unique demons on the block (as well they should be).  it seems to make sense that even the lowliest of demon lords should have notably more power.  but oh well, to each his own.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />if that ever comes to be, it better damn well be a sequel to FC1 instead of yet another rehashing... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />just to pick nits... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />  as i understand it, H4 did not expect or require PCs to be 100th level, just that the module was able to *accommodate* 100th level PCs.  i think you did have to be a minimum of 20th level though.  i speak from ignorance and hearsay though, as i have not read the module through.IIRC, i think Erik suggested that he was only mentioned incidentally as a note for the River Styx, that he was the best navigator or something.  i don't expect Joe to find it easily, as it is probably a sentence or two at most, and fairly obscure.yep, the Last Word is some powerful s---.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  i mean, it killed a few gods, plus a lesser archomental and Primus, among others no doubt.  what mortal, no matter how powerful, is going to stand up against something as devastating as that?why thank you, Alan.   <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f631.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":o" title="Eek!    :o"  data-smilie="9"data-shortname=":o" />  and i'll agree with your second sentence as well.i'd like to think that our research made an impact in the book, and from Erik and James' comments as we posted more and more bits of info, i can only assume that it did.  especially upon hearing that there would be in the appendix a list of all known demon lords, and all known Abyssal layers (IIRC).speaking of which, oh, Joe!!  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />any hints on which demon lords, besides the main 14, were given mention and further info in the book?  James said something like 80 - could you get us at least a partial list when you have the time?  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />and could you see if you have the chance to list which Abyssal layers are described?now, to get back to finishing on re-reading the rest of the thread...</blockquote>

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