Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="GVDammerung" data-source="post: 2858926" data-attributes="member: 33060">I cannot and will not defend D&amp;D &quot;epic level&quot; rules.&nbsp; IMO, they suck.&nbsp; And I agree that PCs should, by some means or measure, be able to fight and win against a demon prince.But whether I like it or not, the 3.5 rules are what they are in terms of levels and the rules for those levels.&nbsp; Under those rules, demon princes, if they are to maintain their traditional roles in D&amp;D are &quot;epic.&quot;&nbsp; I suppose some alternate system might have been presented just for demon princes, applying the paragon template has been suggested earlier, but absent such, the demon princes needed to be &quot;epically&quot; defined to maintain a consistent and fully meaningful mythology.&nbsp; The result, as I understand it, now underrcuts the mythology and in those terms raises a number of questions to which no answer in the mythology is even attempted - the most pressing being &quot;Why the demotion?&quot;&nbsp; This is like saying &quot;superman can't fly&quot; but offering no explaination.Does this mean epic presentation would be unplayable to vast numbers of players?&nbsp; No.&nbsp; Epic characters/rules mesh with non-epic characters/rules.&nbsp; Imperfectly?&nbsp; No argument.&nbsp; But they are not mutually exclusive.&nbsp; There is then no rationale for not presenting the epic versions.&nbsp; No players would be disenfranchised.&nbsp; The demon prines would just be harder kills and that is appropriate, IMO.If the argument is, however, that demon princes should be killable by 20th level PCs, that is a different argument and I think that argument falls apart merely stating it.&nbsp; Demon princes are not just another monster, a bigger badder umberhulk, they are the pinnacle of evil given physical form.&nbsp; 20th level characters are just 20th level characters.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="GVDammerung, post: 2858926, member: 33060"] I cannot and will not defend D&D "epic level" rules. IMO, they suck. And I agree that PCs should, by some means or measure, be able to fight and win against a demon prince. But whether I like it or not, the 3.5 rules are what they are in terms of levels and the rules for those levels. Under those rules, demon princes, if they are to maintain their traditional roles in D&D are "epic." I suppose some alternate system might have been presented just for demon princes, applying the paragon template has been suggested earlier, but absent such, the demon princes needed to be "epically" defined to maintain a consistent and fully meaningful mythology. The result, as I understand it, now underrcuts the mythology and in those terms raises a number of questions to which no answer in the mythology is even attempted - the most pressing being "Why the demotion?" This is like saying "superman can't fly" but offering no explaination. Does this mean epic presentation would be unplayable to vast numbers of players? No. Epic characters/rules mesh with non-epic characters/rules. Imperfectly? No argument. But they are not mutually exclusive. There is then no rationale for not presenting the epic versions. No players would be disenfranchised. The demon prines would just be harder kills and that is appropriate, IMO. If the argument is, however, that demon princes should be killable by 20th level PCs, that is a different argument and I think that argument falls apart merely stating it. Demon princes are not just another monster, a bigger badder umberhulk, they are the pinnacle of evil given physical form. 20th level characters are just 20th level characters. [/QUOTE]

Verification