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Message: <blockquote data-quote="catsclaw227" data-source="post: 2859202" data-attributes="member: 14197">I agree with you whole-heartedly. Unfortunately, in my experience, this is not true.  There are those that chase the idea of Pun-pun with glee and in my opinion, these are playing RAW and that alone.  That is why there are forums where people come up with uber characters.Dude, that's awesome. (With full Beavis and Butthead intonement) I am going to use this for sure.  See, it's ideas like this, combined with Erik's comment about demon lords controlling their layers more or less at will that make the CR debate less important for me.  If the Demon has CR20 "stats" yet has control over it's plane with divine morph, then there is great reason why the CR40/50/60 balor can't just kill him and be done with it.  He'd never get to him in the first place. (At least that is how I would adjudicate it. -- Even if the SRD only says you can make things smell differently, I would say this extends to erecting barriers, molding the landscape to their whim, and manipulating the elements of the plane at will.)Anyway, a web enhancement that clarifies the early assertion that the CR and stats are only when encountered off-plane will stop a lot of this discussion in it's tracks.</blockquote>