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Horizon Walker's Terrain Dominance as viable main strategy
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<blockquote data-quote="StreamOfTheSky" data-source="post: 5771834" data-attributes="member: 35909"><p>Wow, someone actually read my thread! I never even updated with the complete lack of interest. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f641.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":(" title="Frown :(" data-smilie="3"data-shortname=":(" /></p><p></p><p>As I said there, you may be a Master of All Lands, but you only kick ass in those 1-3. HW is a hyper-specialized class, possibly as specialized as noncasters can get. When dominance applies, even without trying to optimize your bonus at all, it just utterly dwarfs</p><p> things like favored enemy or weapon training. When it doesn't apply...there go all your class features! Whoosh! I'd dare say a HW build intending to go to level 10 and make it their main thing, in a game with a lot of terrain variance, is weaker than a rogue in a game with mostly SA-immune monsters.</p><p></p><p>That said, check with your DM. Maybe the camapgin won't be that varied. I mean, it's the same deal as favored enemy in a game where you don't encounter your favored enemy much. Except in the HW's case, he's traded out ranger spell casting, some skill points, and even a bunch of high level class features just to have a stronger favored enemy, so it pinches him harder when it doesn't apply.</p><p></p><p>Also, HW requires BAB +6 to enter, so Rogue 8. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> I still think Ranger 3 / Rogue 4 is the best entry, with whatever archetypes you prefer.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It's tough in D&D. The "skillled" in weak and skilled is usually magic, and if you're weaker than the other non-casters, then you're just sort of inferior, combat-wise. All of the primary spellcasting classes are right out, including Bard. Paladin is too "strong" in vibe, what with all the armor, Ranger has some casting but it's very small. Fighter, Monk, and Rogue are the other options for base class. Barbarian would be, but raging doesn't seem like it jives with what you want, it's just too brash.</p><p></p><p>HW could work, it's just that the difference in combat effectiveness between when you get your TD bonuses and don't will be pretty impossible to ignore. And you have no real control over when you use them. You're not applying your skill when needed, you're using your specialized knowledge when the opportunity presents itself, not quite the same thing.</p><p></p><p>The fluff parts you mentioned could be added to just about any character, I think. Doesn't have to be a HW to want to explore the world.</p><p></p><p>What books can you use? If you have access to Ultimate Combat... My first instinct is to recommend some combo of Master of Many Styles (and possibly Sohei as well) Monk, Unarmed Fighter, Inquisitor, and prestige class of your choice. I have a half-baked build idea I was kicking around earlier, utilizing Crane and Snake styles in tandem with combat reflexes to basically just punish enemies for missing with their sloppy technique, along with tripping. Not much damage per hit, but very good defense that he can turn into scary offense when the hits start to build up.</p><p></p><p>[sblock]Unarmed Fighter 1 / MoMS Qinggong Monk 1 / UF +1 / Monk +3 / Inquisitor 3 / Duelist 9 / Shadowdancer 2</p><p></p><p>Feats:</p><p>1 Improved Unarmed Strike [Fighter]</p><p>1 Crane Style [Fighter]</p><p>1 Weapon Finesse</p><p>2 Crane Wing [Monk]</p><p>2 Stunning Fist (Fort DC 20 + wis; 9/day) [Monk]</p><p>3 Snake Style [Fighter]</p><p>3 Dodge</p><p>4 Snake Fang [Monk]</p><p>5 Mobility</p><p>7 Combat Expertise</p><p>9 Improved Trip</p><p>9 Tandem Trip [Inquisitor]</p><p>11 Greater Trip</p><p>13 Lookout</p><p>13 Combat Reflexes [Duelist]</p><p>15 Monastic Legacy</p><p>17 Crane Riposte</p><p>18 Deflect Arrows [Duelist]</p><p>19 Coordinated Charge</p><p></p><p>Other nice feats I didn't hav room for: Vicious Stomp, Fury’s Fall</p><p></p><p>Class: Stunning Fist (Stun 1 round or Fatigue), Evasion, AC bonus, Still Mind, Ki Pool (2+Wis points), True Strike (1 ki point), Fast Movement +10 ft, Maneuver Training, Stern Gaze (+1 intimidate/sense motive), Monster Lore (+Wis to ID creatures), Travel Domain (+10 speed; 3+ Wis/day rounds ignore difficult terrain), Judgement 1/day, Orisons, Cunning Initiative (+Wis to init), Detect Alignment, Track +1, Solo Tactics, Canny Defense, Parry, Riposte, Precise Strike (+9 damage), Improved Reaction +4, Enhanced Mobility, Grace (+2 Reflex), Acrobatic Charge, Elaborate Defense, No retreat, Hide in Plain Sight, Uncanny Dodge, Darkvision +30 ft, Improved Evasion?</p><p></p><p>Key gear:</p><p>Amulet of Mighty Fists (Guided)</p><p>+X Guided Rope Dart?</p><p>Monk’s Robe</p><p>Mage armor</p><p>Ring of Freedom of Movement</p><p>Ring of Deflection +5 and Featherfalling</p><p>Cloak of Resistance +5 and Minor Displacement</p><p>[/sblock]</p><p></p><p>You don't have to do it exactly like that, or as optimized, just an idea. He uses just about no magic at all and is outwardly weak, but pretty dang skilled. It's amazing how feat starved he was, even by end level.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="StreamOfTheSky, post: 5771834, member: 35909"] Wow, someone actually read my thread! I never even updated with the complete lack of interest. :( As I said there, you may be a Master of All Lands, but you only kick ass in those 1-3. HW is a hyper-specialized class, possibly as specialized as noncasters can get. When dominance applies, even without trying to optimize your bonus at all, it just utterly dwarfs things like favored enemy or weapon training. When it doesn't apply...there go all your class features! Whoosh! I'd dare say a HW build intending to go to level 10 and make it their main thing, in a game with a lot of terrain variance, is weaker than a rogue in a game with mostly SA-immune monsters. That said, check with your DM. Maybe the camapgin won't be that varied. I mean, it's the same deal as favored enemy in a game where you don't encounter your favored enemy much. Except in the HW's case, he's traded out ranger spell casting, some skill points, and even a bunch of high level class features just to have a stronger favored enemy, so it pinches him harder when it doesn't apply. Also, HW requires BAB +6 to enter, so Rogue 8. :) I still think Ranger 3 / Rogue 4 is the best entry, with whatever archetypes you prefer. It's tough in D&D. The "skillled" in weak and skilled is usually magic, and if you're weaker than the other non-casters, then you're just sort of inferior, combat-wise. All of the primary spellcasting classes are right out, including Bard. Paladin is too "strong" in vibe, what with all the armor, Ranger has some casting but it's very small. Fighter, Monk, and Rogue are the other options for base class. Barbarian would be, but raging doesn't seem like it jives with what you want, it's just too brash. HW could work, it's just that the difference in combat effectiveness between when you get your TD bonuses and don't will be pretty impossible to ignore. And you have no real control over when you use them. You're not applying your skill when needed, you're using your specialized knowledge when the opportunity presents itself, not quite the same thing. The fluff parts you mentioned could be added to just about any character, I think. Doesn't have to be a HW to want to explore the world. What books can you use? If you have access to Ultimate Combat... My first instinct is to recommend some combo of Master of Many Styles (and possibly Sohei as well) Monk, Unarmed Fighter, Inquisitor, and prestige class of your choice. I have a half-baked build idea I was kicking around earlier, utilizing Crane and Snake styles in tandem with combat reflexes to basically just punish enemies for missing with their sloppy technique, along with tripping. Not much damage per hit, but very good defense that he can turn into scary offense when the hits start to build up. [sblock]Unarmed Fighter 1 / MoMS Qinggong Monk 1 / UF +1 / Monk +3 / Inquisitor 3 / Duelist 9 / Shadowdancer 2 Feats: 1 Improved Unarmed Strike [Fighter] 1 Crane Style [Fighter] 1 Weapon Finesse 2 Crane Wing [Monk] 2 Stunning Fist (Fort DC 20 + wis; 9/day) [Monk] 3 Snake Style [Fighter] 3 Dodge 4 Snake Fang [Monk] 5 Mobility 7 Combat Expertise 9 Improved Trip 9 Tandem Trip [Inquisitor] 11 Greater Trip 13 Lookout 13 Combat Reflexes [Duelist] 15 Monastic Legacy 17 Crane Riposte 18 Deflect Arrows [Duelist] 19 Coordinated Charge Other nice feats I didn't hav room for: Vicious Stomp, Fury’s Fall Class: Stunning Fist (Stun 1 round or Fatigue), Evasion, AC bonus, Still Mind, Ki Pool (2+Wis points), True Strike (1 ki point), Fast Movement +10 ft, Maneuver Training, Stern Gaze (+1 intimidate/sense motive), Monster Lore (+Wis to ID creatures), Travel Domain (+10 speed; 3+ Wis/day rounds ignore difficult terrain), Judgement 1/day, Orisons, Cunning Initiative (+Wis to init), Detect Alignment, Track +1, Solo Tactics, Canny Defense, Parry, Riposte, Precise Strike (+9 damage), Improved Reaction +4, Enhanced Mobility, Grace (+2 Reflex), Acrobatic Charge, Elaborate Defense, No retreat, Hide in Plain Sight, Uncanny Dodge, Darkvision +30 ft, Improved Evasion? Key gear: Amulet of Mighty Fists (Guided) +X Guided Rope Dart? Monk’s Robe Mage armor Ring of Freedom of Movement Ring of Deflection +5 and Featherfalling Cloak of Resistance +5 and Minor Displacement [/sblock] You don't have to do it exactly like that, or as optimized, just an idea. He uses just about no magic at all and is outwardly weak, but pretty dang skilled. It's amazing how feat starved he was, even by end level. [/QUOTE]
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