Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
"Hot" take: Aesthetically-pleasing rules are highly overvalued
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 8111536" data-attributes="member: 29398"><p>Ah - OK. Now I see where you're going; this makes way more sense. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>The problem with things like keywords (or design mechanic) is that once a keyword exists, things tend to get shoehorned into using that keyword or mechanic even when it doesn't 100% suit or when some other term or phrase or mechanic would be better.</p><p></p><p>My current example of this from a design-level perspective is 5e's advantage-disadvantage mechanic. Great mechanic for some situations. Not the best for others, where something else e.g. a straight + or - or even rollign a different die size would work better. Yet once ad-disad was in the game, everhthing got shoehorned into using it - which does 5e no favours at all.</p><p></p><p>In 3e it was the d20 mechanic. Everything got shoehorned into it even when d% or d12 worked better.</p><p></p><p>I'd disagree about the original idea being sound and interesting - all PrCs ever appeared as from my viewpoint were places where powergamers could make themselves happy.</p><p></p><p>In a mass-market RPG such as D&D there's a fourth value that can't be overlooked: "is the game system as designed flexible enough to be able to handle all the varied and different ways people are likely going to try to play it?" And value 4A would be "how well can the underlying system tolerate kitbashing?". Most games don't have to worry about these - there's really only one way to play chess or monopoly, for example, and rarely if ever do people mess with the rules to any great extent - but RPGs have all kinds of options when it comes to how to play them, and also have a long history of end-users tinkering with the rules.</p><p></p><p>I go for practicality first (does this particular rule do the job it's supposed to do), appearance second (is it worded in a way that's both a) clear to understand and b) not boring), and structure third (I don't mind using different mechanics to accomplish different things).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 8111536, member: 29398"] Ah - OK. Now I see where you're going; this makes way more sense. :) The problem with things like keywords (or design mechanic) is that once a keyword exists, things tend to get shoehorned into using that keyword or mechanic even when it doesn't 100% suit or when some other term or phrase or mechanic would be better. My current example of this from a design-level perspective is 5e's advantage-disadvantage mechanic. Great mechanic for some situations. Not the best for others, where something else e.g. a straight + or - or even rollign a different die size would work better. Yet once ad-disad was in the game, everhthing got shoehorned into using it - which does 5e no favours at all. In 3e it was the d20 mechanic. Everything got shoehorned into it even when d% or d12 worked better. I'd disagree about the original idea being sound and interesting - all PrCs ever appeared as from my viewpoint were places where powergamers could make themselves happy. In a mass-market RPG such as D&D there's a fourth value that can't be overlooked: "is the game system as designed flexible enough to be able to handle all the varied and different ways people are likely going to try to play it?" And value 4A would be "how well can the underlying system tolerate kitbashing?". Most games don't have to worry about these - there's really only one way to play chess or monopoly, for example, and rarely if ever do people mess with the rules to any great extent - but RPGs have all kinds of options when it comes to how to play them, and also have a long history of end-users tinkering with the rules. I go for practicality first (does this particular rule do the job it's supposed to do), appearance second (is it worded in a way that's both a) clear to understand and b) not boring), and structure third (I don't mind using different mechanics to accomplish different things). [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
"Hot" take: Aesthetically-pleasing rules are highly overvalued
Top