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"Hot" take: Aesthetically-pleasing rules are highly overvalued
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 8112516" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>To generalise: rules can be written using keywords, or they can be written simply by reference to fictional positioning.</p><p></p><p>Keywords, in turn, can be shorthands for fictional positioning, or elements of a mechanical framework, or both.</p><p></p><p>4e uses keywords in both ways: <em>Reliable</em> is purely a mechanical keyword (it means the limited-use attack power is not expended if the attack misses); <em>Fire</em> is primarily a shorthand for fictional positioning (ie <em>when you do this thing labelled "fire" there are flames and heat and the like going on!</em>) but also enters into the mechanics (because there are creatures resistant to fire). The closest I can think of to keywords that are <em>purely</em> fictional positioning are power sources; and even those do a bit of mechanical work (eg the Sage of Ages has abilities that affect only Arcane powers).</p><p></p><p>Marvel Heroic RP uses more keywords purely for fictional positioning: eg the difference between a Mystic Bolt power rated at d10 and a Gatling Gun power with the same rating is purely one of fictional positioning. They don't interact with the mechanics in any different way.</p><p></p><p>Apocalypse World uses keywords ("tags") in places, and expressly flags when they are about the fiction ("cues" and "constraints") and when they are mechanical. But it also uses unmediated fictional positioning - eg consider the <em>Seduce or Manipulate</em> move:</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">When you try to seduce or manipulate someone, tell them what you want and roll+hot. For NPCs: on a hit, they ask you</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">to promise something first, and do it if you promise. On a 10+, whether you keep your promise is up to you, later. On a 7–9, they need some concrete assurance right now.</p><p></p><p><em>Concrete assurance</em> isn't a keyword. It's an unmediated description of the fiction that the player must bring about for his/her PC, if s/he wants the NPC to do whatever it is that s/he wants him/her to do.</p><p></p><p>I don't see how keywords are limiting or constraining; they're just <em>useful</em> for avoiding repetition or overly narrow descriptions of things (like [USER=82106]@AbdulAlhazred[/USER]'s flametongue example). Nor do I see that unmediated references to fictional position have to lead towards "viking hat" GMing and associated pathologies. What that will tend to turn on is <em>who gets to establish fictional position?</em>, and <em>what motivations do participants have to argue the toss</em>? Gygaxian D&D generates incentives for players to argue the toss at nearly every turn, due to the need to husband resources and outwit the GM. What creates the comparatively "relaxed" feeling of 4e D&D or Cortex+ Heroic/MHRP and other games that might be compared to them is that they don't generate the same sorts of incentives.</p><p></p><p>Unmediated reference to fictional position isn't very helpful, though, if the resolution is almost entirely mechanical rather than fiction-driven (eg standard D&D combat).</p><p></p><p></p><p>This isn't "natural". It's an artifice of a particular orientation in play - roughly, "husband resources and outwit the GM" - combined with a particular approach to resolution systems - roughly, a series of highly individuated subsystems each associated with a particular ingame process (eg the open locks subsystem, the spying subsystem, the sage subsystem, the loyalty subsystem - all of these can result in the discovery of secrets, but it's not clear which one to use as a model when a player wants to discover a secret by interrogating a prisoner).</p><p></p><p>I don't see this coming up in my Traveller games, even though Traveller is a sub-system based resolution framework. I think there are two reasons for this: (1) the sub-systems are pretty comprehensive of the plausible scope of activity for the game; (2) it's not a "husband resources and outwit the GM" game.</p><p></p><p>I certainly don't see it coming up in RPGs that don't use sub-system based resolution. In these games there literally isn't such a thing, at least from the mechanical point of view, as "the game not being set up to handle it". And players <em>invoke</em> the rules, they don't push against them.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 8112516, member: 42582"] To generalise: rules can be written using keywords, or they can be written simply by reference to fictional positioning. Keywords, in turn, can be shorthands for fictional positioning, or elements of a mechanical framework, or both. 4e uses keywords in both ways: [I]Reliable[/I] is purely a mechanical keyword (it means the limited-use attack power is not expended if the attack misses); [I]Fire[/I] is primarily a shorthand for fictional positioning (ie [I]when you do this thing labelled "fire" there are flames and heat and the like going on![/I]) but also enters into the mechanics (because there are creatures resistant to fire). The closest I can think of to keywords that are [I]purely[/I] fictional positioning are power sources; and even those do a bit of mechanical work (eg the Sage of Ages has abilities that affect only Arcane powers). Marvel Heroic RP uses more keywords purely for fictional positioning: eg the difference between a Mystic Bolt power rated at d10 and a Gatling Gun power with the same rating is purely one of fictional positioning. They don't interact with the mechanics in any different way. Apocalypse World uses keywords ("tags") in places, and expressly flags when they are about the fiction ("cues" and "constraints") and when they are mechanical. But it also uses unmediated fictional positioning - eg consider the [I]Seduce or Manipulate[/I] move: [indent]When you try to seduce or manipulate someone, tell them what you want and roll+hot. For NPCs: on a hit, they ask you to promise something first, and do it if you promise. On a 10+, whether you keep your promise is up to you, later. On a 7–9, they need some concrete assurance right now.[/indent] [I]Concrete assurance[/I] isn't a keyword. It's an unmediated description of the fiction that the player must bring about for his/her PC, if s/he wants the NPC to do whatever it is that s/he wants him/her to do. I don't see how keywords are limiting or constraining; they're just [I]useful[/I] for avoiding repetition or overly narrow descriptions of things (like [USER=82106]@AbdulAlhazred[/USER]'s flametongue example). Nor do I see that unmediated references to fictional position have to lead towards "viking hat" GMing and associated pathologies. What that will tend to turn on is [I]who gets to establish fictional position?[/I], and [I]what motivations do participants have to argue the toss[/I]? Gygaxian D&D generates incentives for players to argue the toss at nearly every turn, due to the need to husband resources and outwit the GM. What creates the comparatively "relaxed" feeling of 4e D&D or Cortex+ Heroic/MHRP and other games that might be compared to them is that they don't generate the same sorts of incentives. Unmediated reference to fictional position isn't very helpful, though, if the resolution is almost entirely mechanical rather than fiction-driven (eg standard D&D combat). This isn't "natural". It's an artifice of a particular orientation in play - roughly, "husband resources and outwit the GM" - combined with a particular approach to resolution systems - roughly, a series of highly individuated subsystems each associated with a particular ingame process (eg the open locks subsystem, the spying subsystem, the sage subsystem, the loyalty subsystem - all of these can result in the discovery of secrets, but it's not clear which one to use as a model when a player wants to discover a secret by interrogating a prisoner). I don't see this coming up in my Traveller games, even though Traveller is a sub-system based resolution framework. I think there are two reasons for this: (1) the sub-systems are pretty comprehensive of the plausible scope of activity for the game; (2) it's not a "husband resources and outwit the GM" game. I certainly don't see it coming up in RPGs that don't use sub-system based resolution. In these games there literally isn't such a thing, at least from the mechanical point of view, as "the game not being set up to handle it". And players [I]invoke[/I] the rules, they don't push against them. [/QUOTE]
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