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"Hot" take: Aesthetically-pleasing rules are highly overvalued
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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8114742" data-attributes="member: 16814"><p>Yes, I don't even really understand what you're trying to say, here. I just ran a Blades in the Dark game yesterday evening, and we definitely resolved some situations in play. Further, while it's been a few months since we last played 5e (but will be returning next month), we've built some story via rolls in 5e just fine. I do not understand what distinction you're trying to make here -- it really just reads like you dislike 5e and like DW more than an actual discussion of play objectives and tech.</p><p></p><p>I suggest that you look again at the DW rules -- the moves -- and not the principles it expounds on and see exactly how they'd work if you tried using them in a D&D style. Heck, pick one, I'll show you. Do I think DW works well like this? No, it doesn't work very well, but it does work. It's not the structure of the mechanics that makes it a story game, it's the principles of play that direct you how to use those mechanics. I think you've mixed the two up in your thinking and are having trouble separating the two things -- when you read the rules in DW, you're already thinking in terms of the appropriate principles, so they appear to work only one way -- as intended. This isn't the only way those can be approached.</p><p></p><p>Nope. There was a very good discussion by many familiar with DW in that thread, and it wasn't that the rules weren't applied, it's how they were being applied. The GM in that thread, for instance, didn't apply Defy Danger as expected by the principles of play, and so many things were much easier than expected. Further, they didn't grasp the nature of "play to find out" and had scripted dungeons a la D&D. This meant that the GM was exercising "no" in ways that thwarted the intended principles of play in the rules instead of letting the resolutions lead the fiction.</p><p></p><p>Those are some of the principles I'm talking about. They're not rules, in that they're not actually enforceable or result in game changes when applied, but instead directions on how to think about the metagame -- how to build a world so that you can use the tech to achieve the objectives of play through this and other principles of play. For instance, "leave spaces" isn't really a rule, in that it doesn't tell me how or where to do this, but it does tell me why I should -- it enables other rules tech and the other principles enough space to create the play intended. It's a rule on how to use the rules. Metarule.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 8114742, member: 16814"] Yes, I don't even really understand what you're trying to say, here. I just ran a Blades in the Dark game yesterday evening, and we definitely resolved some situations in play. Further, while it's been a few months since we last played 5e (but will be returning next month), we've built some story via rolls in 5e just fine. I do not understand what distinction you're trying to make here -- it really just reads like you dislike 5e and like DW more than an actual discussion of play objectives and tech. I suggest that you look again at the DW rules -- the moves -- and not the principles it expounds on and see exactly how they'd work if you tried using them in a D&D style. Heck, pick one, I'll show you. Do I think DW works well like this? No, it doesn't work very well, but it does work. It's not the structure of the mechanics that makes it a story game, it's the principles of play that direct you how to use those mechanics. I think you've mixed the two up in your thinking and are having trouble separating the two things -- when you read the rules in DW, you're already thinking in terms of the appropriate principles, so they appear to work only one way -- as intended. This isn't the only way those can be approached. Nope. There was a very good discussion by many familiar with DW in that thread, and it wasn't that the rules weren't applied, it's how they were being applied. The GM in that thread, for instance, didn't apply Defy Danger as expected by the principles of play, and so many things were much easier than expected. Further, they didn't grasp the nature of "play to find out" and had scripted dungeons a la D&D. This meant that the GM was exercising "no" in ways that thwarted the intended principles of play in the rules instead of letting the resolutions lead the fiction. Those are some of the principles I'm talking about. They're not rules, in that they're not actually enforceable or result in game changes when applied, but instead directions on how to think about the metagame -- how to build a world so that you can use the tech to achieve the objectives of play through this and other principles of play. For instance, "leave spaces" isn't really a rule, in that it doesn't tell me how or where to do this, but it does tell me why I should -- it enables other rules tech and the other principles enough space to create the play intended. It's a rule on how to use the rules. Metarule. [/QUOTE]
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"Hot" take: Aesthetically-pleasing rules are highly overvalued
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