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"Hot" take: Aesthetically-pleasing rules are highly overvalued
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 8116924" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>I agree that we're talking here about action resolution.</p><p></p><p>1977 Classic Traveller has the following two evasion mechanics (both in Book 1):</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">If two parties encounter without surprise, either may attempt to escape, imme-diately (before any combat or contact occurs). Boll 9+ to escape (DM of –1 if short range, +1 if medium range, +2 if long range, +3 if very long range encounter). (p 28)</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Throw 10+ to escape on contact and avoid attack. Throw 8+ to avoid being hit if escape fails. Alternate these throws until escape succeeds, or the craft is hit. DM: +1 per level of expertise on both rolls. (pp 17-18, under the Ship's Boat skill description)</p><p></p><p>When the PCs were escaping/evading orbital bombardment in their ATVs, I used the Ship's Boat rules, allowing also an adverse DM for the Forward Observer skill of the enemy NPC calling down the fire.</p><p></p><p>I subsequently merged the two above mechanics, with 10+ as the basic throw required and just adjusting the DMs in the first system (ie no DM for short range, and +2, +3, +4 for medium, long and very long ranges).</p><p></p><p>This is the sort of thing I have in mind when I characterise Classic Traveller as based around "subsystems" rather than a universal framework. Other mechanical subsystems are the throws to avoid misjump and drive failure during starship operation; the check to encounter a patron after a week of hanging out in likely places for such a meeting (DM +1 if Carousing-1+); the throw to survive travel in a cold berth; the throw to hit in personal combat; the throws to avoid things going wrong when wearing a vacc suit; etc.</p><p></p><p>Some of the subsystems that I use aren't expressed as coherently as they might be in the original rulebooks - eg the rules for dealing with officials are scattered across five or six places (discussions of law level in Book 3, and Admin, Bribery, Forgery and Streetwise skill descriptions in Book 1), and I've prepared my own rules document that brings them all together.</p><p></p><p>To some extent these subsystems can be analogised to the framework of "moves" in PbtA games. But they don't have the same standard pattern of roll, add a stat between -2 and +3, and then establish a consequence based on an overall result of 6-, 7-9 or 10+. And they tend to be at the more prescribed end of consequences.</p><p></p><p>To take a different comparator, these subsystems are quite different from those found in Gygax's AD&D. They have a type of modularity, and a similarity of very basic structure (2D throw plus dice modifiers), which tends to facilitate the sort of integration and extrapolation that I've described in this post. (And maybe that's all you've got in mind in describing the system as "universal".) Whereas AD&D's subystems are a total nightmare, and have terrible points of friction nearly everywhere one looks (eg how does Move Silently interact with surprise rules? is searching a statue for a concealed cavity more like searching for secret doors - ie anyone can do it and elves are better - or more like searching for a trap - ie only thieves et al can do it and betterness is a function of class level?)</p><p></p><p>None of the above is criticism of Traveller, by the way (cf AD&D, which I am criticising). I really like Classic Traveller - at the moment it's one of my top three systems. It's just an attempt at accurate description.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 8116924, member: 42582"] I agree that we're talking here about action resolution. 1977 Classic Traveller has the following two evasion mechanics (both in Book 1): [indent]If two parties encounter without surprise, either may attempt to escape, imme-diately (before any combat or contact occurs). Boll 9+ to escape (DM of –1 if short range, +1 if medium range, +2 if long range, +3 if very long range encounter). (p 28) Throw 10+ to escape on contact and avoid attack. Throw 8+ to avoid being hit if escape fails. Alternate these throws until escape succeeds, or the craft is hit. DM: +1 per level of expertise on both rolls. (pp 17-18, under the Ship's Boat skill description)[/indent] When the PCs were escaping/evading orbital bombardment in their ATVs, I used the Ship's Boat rules, allowing also an adverse DM for the Forward Observer skill of the enemy NPC calling down the fire. I subsequently merged the two above mechanics, with 10+ as the basic throw required and just adjusting the DMs in the first system (ie no DM for short range, and +2, +3, +4 for medium, long and very long ranges). This is the sort of thing I have in mind when I characterise Classic Traveller as based around "subsystems" rather than a universal framework. Other mechanical subsystems are the throws to avoid misjump and drive failure during starship operation; the check to encounter a patron after a week of hanging out in likely places for such a meeting (DM +1 if Carousing-1+); the throw to survive travel in a cold berth; the throw to hit in personal combat; the throws to avoid things going wrong when wearing a vacc suit; etc. Some of the subsystems that I use aren't expressed as coherently as they might be in the original rulebooks - eg the rules for dealing with officials are scattered across five or six places (discussions of law level in Book 3, and Admin, Bribery, Forgery and Streetwise skill descriptions in Book 1), and I've prepared my own rules document that brings them all together. To some extent these subsystems can be analogised to the framework of "moves" in PbtA games. But they don't have the same standard pattern of roll, add a stat between -2 and +3, and then establish a consequence based on an overall result of 6-, 7-9 or 10+. And they tend to be at the more prescribed end of consequences. To take a different comparator, these subsystems are quite different from those found in Gygax's AD&D. They have a type of modularity, and a similarity of very basic structure (2D throw plus dice modifiers), which tends to facilitate the sort of integration and extrapolation that I've described in this post. (And maybe that's all you've got in mind in describing the system as "universal".) Whereas AD&D's subystems are a total nightmare, and have terrible points of friction nearly everywhere one looks (eg how does Move Silently interact with surprise rules? is searching a statue for a concealed cavity more like searching for secret doors - ie anyone can do it and elves are better - or more like searching for a trap - ie only thieves et al can do it and betterness is a function of class level?) None of the above is criticism of Traveller, by the way (cf AD&D, which I am criticising). I really like Classic Traveller - at the moment it's one of my top three systems. It's just an attempt at accurate description. [/QUOTE]
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