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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GMforPowergamers" data-source="post: 8860665" data-attributes="member: 67338">you said things (and continue to) that I agree with some of it and disagree with some.a challenge for one character and a challenge for all characters are 2 diffrent things...a full plate wearing cleric with a 11 dex non prof and a rogue with a 17+ dex and prof are two different things... both going for a DC 14 1 should be a challenge the other should be super easy bearly an unconvinced... but sometimes luck will favor that cleric with +0 and not favor the rogue with the +8 again, being good at something doesn't equal being always able to make the check... having the +8 vs a Dc 13 or 14 is fine, and even a +10 is.except that is the way it is now...young green Dragon BW con save DC 14 can be run into anywhere from 5th-9th level... lets say at 5th 2 PCs face it, a barbarian and a wizard... the barbarian has a 16con the wizard a 14. both have no magic bonus at this level so that is +6 and +2barb 60/40 chance to make savewizard 45/65 chanceancient green dragon  BW con save DC 22 you are not supposed to run into that until the end game around level 16 or 17 let progress them to level 17 and boost the barb con bt 2 and give both +1 magicwizard now has a +3 and barbarian +11bab 50/50 chance to make savewiz 10/90 chance....both are doing worse... lets up the barbarian to 20 giving him +4 more con that gives him +13 a 60/40</blockquote>