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Message: <blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8861111" data-attributes="member: 93670">No it is very much not the same..[spoiler="this was the 3.5 dc chart"]Table 2–5: Difficulty Class ExamplesDC Example Roll (Key Ability) Who Could Do It–10 Hear the sounds of a pitched battle Listen (Wis) A commoner on the other side of a stone wall0 Track ten hill giants across a muddy field Search (Int) The village fool hustling at full speed at night5 Climb a knotted rope Climb (Str) An average human carrying a 75-pound pack5 Hear people talking on the other side of a door Listen (Wis) An absent-minded sage being distracted by allies10 Run or charge down steep stairs Balance (Dex) A 1st-level rogue10 Follow tracks of fifteen orcs across firm ground Search (Int) A 1st-level commoner10 Ransack a chest full of junk to find a map Search (Int) A 1st-level commoner10 Tie a firm knot Use Rope (Dex) A 1st-level commoner10 Find out the current gossip Gather Information (Cha) A 1st-level commoner11* Avoid being tripped by a wolf — (Str or Dex) A 1st-level commoner12 Assess the value of a silver necklace Appraise (Int) A 1st-level rogue13+ Resist the command spell Will save (Wis) A 1st-level wizard or a low-level fighter13 Bash open a simple wooden door — (Str) A fighter15 Make a dying friend stable Heal (Wis) A 1st-level cleric15 Make indifferent people friendly Diplomacy (Cha) A 1st-level paladin15 Jump 10 feet (with a running start) Jump (Str) A 1st-level fighter15 Tumble past a foe Tumble (Dex) A low-level monk15* Get a minor lie past a canny guard Bluff (Cha) A 1st-level rogue16 Identify a 1st-level spell as it is being cast Spellcraft (Int) A wizard (but not anyone untrained in spells)17* Resist a 10th-level vampire’s dominating gaze Will save (Wis) A low-level monk or a high-level fighter18 Bash open a strong wooden door — (Str) An enraged half-orc barbarian18 Cast fireball while being shot with an arrow Concentration (Con) A low-level wizard20 Notice a typical secret door Search (Int) A smart, 1st-level half-elf rogue20 Notice a scrying sensor — (Int) A low-level wizard with Int 12 or higher20 Notice an invisible creature moving nearby Spot (Wis) A low-level ranger20 Pick a very simple lock Open Lock (Dex) A dexterous, 1st-level halfling rogue (but not anyone untrained at picking locks)20 Find out what sorts of crimes the baron’s Gather Information (Cha) A low-level bard daughter has gotten away with20 Avoid falling into a pit trap Reflex save (Dex) A mid-level rogue or a high-level paladin20 Walk a tightrope Balance (Dex) A low-level rogue21 Raise a dire wolf cub Handle Animal (Cha) A mid-level ranger21* Sneak quietly past a hellcat 50 feet away Move Silently (Dex) A low-level rogue22* Escape from an owlbear’s clutches Escape Artist (Dex) A low-level rogue23* Grab a guard’s spear and wrest it out of his hands Melee attack (Str) A mid-level fighter24 Resist the wail of the banshee spell Fortitude save (Con) A high-level fighter24*+ Shoot an armored guard through an arrow slit Ranged attack (Dex) A high-level fighter25 Notice that something’s wrong with a friend Sense Motive (Wis) A mid-level rogue who’s under a vampire’s control25 Persuade the dragon that has captured you Diplomacy (Cha) A high-level bard that it would be a good idea to let you go25 Find out from a city’s inhabitants who the Gather Information (Cha) A high-level bard power behind the throne is26 Jump over an orc’s head (with a running start) Jump (Str) A 20th-level ranger wearing light armor or a mid-levelbarbarian wearing light armor (who really only needsa 22 because his speed is higher)28 Disable a glyph of warding Disable Device (Int) A high-level rogue (but not anyone of another class)30 Notice a well-hidden secret door Search (Int) A high-level rogue28 Bash open an iron door — (Str) A fire giant29 Calm a hostile owlbear Wild empathy (Cha) A high-level druid (and only a druid or ranger)30 Hurriedly climb a slick brick wall Climb (Str) A high-level barbarian30 Read a letter written in ancient Draconic Decipher Script (Int) A high-level wizard30 Pick a good lock Open Lock (Dex) A high-level rogue43 Track a goblin that passed over hard rocks a week ago, and it snowed yesterday,  Survival (Wis) A 20th-level ranger who has maxed out his Survival skill and has been fighting goblinoids as his favored enemy since 1st level* This number is actually the average roll on the opponent’s opposed check rather than a fixed number.+ 2 Actual DC may be higher or lower depending on the caster or ability user.*+ This is the target’s adjusted Armor Class.DC: The number a character needs to roll to succeed.Example: An example of a task with that DC.Roll (Key Ability): The roll the character makes, usually a skill checkbut sometimes a saving throw, an ability check, or even an attack roll. The ability that modifies the roll is in parentheses. A “—” in this column means that the check is an ability check and no skill ranks, base save bonuses, or base attack bonuses apply.Who Could Do It: An example of a character that would have about a 50% chance to succeed. When this entry names a character by class, it assumes that the character has the skill in question. (Othercharacters might have a better or worse chance to succeed.[HR][/HR]Then edge cases could add or subtract <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/giving-an-ad-d-feel-to-5e.679228/post-8241363" target="_blank">these two</a> on top.[/spoiler]The table once went to targeting a situation like "A 20th-level ranger who has maxed out his Survival (a very nontrivial cost), and it snowed yesterday skill and has been fighting goblinoids as his favored enemy since 1st level" while still including <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/giving-an-ad-d-feel-to-5e.679228/post-8241363" target="_blank">a framework</a> for the GM to extend that list of examples further with edge cases.[spoiler='"This is what 5e says on them']D IFFICULTY C LASSIt's your job to establish the Difficulty Class for an abilitycheck or a saving throw when a rule or an adventuredoesn't give you one. Sometimes you'll even want tochange such established DCs. When you do so, think ofhow difficult a task is and then pick the associated DCfrom the Typical DCs table.TYP I CA L DCsTask DC Task DCVery easy 5Easy 10Moderate 15Hard 20Very hard 25Nearly impossible 30The numbers associated with these categories ofdifficulty are meant to be easy to keep in your head,so that you don't have to refer to this book every timeyou decide on a DC. Here are some tips for using DCcategories at the gaming table.If you've decided that an ability check is called for,then most likely the task at hand isn't a very easyone. Most people can accomplish a DC 5 task withlittle chance of failure. Unless circumstances areunusual, let characters succeed at such a task withoutmaking a check.Then ask yourself, "Is this task's difficulty easy,moderate, or hard?" If the only DCs you ever use are 10,5, and 20, your game will run just fine. Keep in mindthat a character with a 10 in the associated ability andno proficiency will succeed at an easy task around 50percent of the time. A moderate task requires a higherscore or proficiency for success, whereas a hard tasktypically requires both. A big dose of luck with the d20also doesn't hurt.If you find yourself thinking, "This task is especiallyhard," you can use a higher DC, but do so with cautionand consider the level of the characters. A DC 25 taskis very hard for low-level characters to accomplish, butit becomes more reasonable after 1 0th level or so. ADC 30 check is nearly impossible for most low-levelcharacters. A 20th-level character with proficiency and arelevant ability score of 20 still needs a 19 or 20 on thedie roll to succeed at a task of this difficulty.[/spoiler]Those DCs are not made for experts.  +5 from stat+8 to +12 from expertise on a roll that might be made with advantage from "I'm helping" or width a d4 from "oh I cast guidance too" turns DC30 into almost guaranteed success.On the combat side 5e's Bounded accuracy causes monsters to have a different set of problems ranging from mindnumbing combats with monsters that need powerball jackpot odds in order for them to rise up to the level of "a mild threat" over to the other side of Bounded accuracy's higher level razor's edge of combat variety with combats that are so slanted that the gm may as well just declare "rocks fall"edit: fixed a copy/paste line break format in the dc43 that had part of the scenario in the who can do it</blockquote>

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