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"Hot Take": Fear is a bad motivator
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<blockquote data-quote="HJFudge" data-source="post: 8245350" data-attributes="member: 6997593"><p>My 2 cents here:</p><p></p><p>If there is no loss state, then there is no way to 'win'. In tabletop games I play, it is very possible to lose the campaign. The two hard loss states I have usually are TPK and severe failure to stop the bad-guy. I inform everyone of this during session 0. Everyone knows its possible to lose. We have had campaign losses before. I'd say about 1/3rd of the campaigns Ive played or ran have ended due to a Loss State. Note: We don't stop playing, we just start a new campaign. We as players do not lose out on game night or game time! Someone almost always has a campaign idea waiting in the wings to be tried out <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>I do not enjoy games where it is impossible to lose. Where whilst I may face minor setbacks or obstacles or loss, if I cannot truly LOSE the game then my choices feel empty. After all, any choice at all leads to an eventual victory in some form or another. </p><p></p><p>That said, this fear of losing is NOT what motivates me when I play or my players. Fear of loss might be in there for the characters, as in they fear being unable to save the world, losing their loved ones, whatever...but there are plenty of other motivators throughout the game that drive the party. These usually involve greed of one form or another. Getting that next level, or that next power, or that next item. Often it is also revenge for previous losses incurred that motivate the player. That long time NPC who burnt down our parties castle...we're gonna make him pay!</p><p></p><p>But again, if a game cannot be lost, I see no point in playing. If I wanted that, theres a book right there I can just read it. The end is known from the beginning and no decisions are of actual consequence except for one: The decision to just not play. There can be no triumph without real risk of losing the game.</p><p></p><p>For me, anyway.</p><p></p><p></p><p>EDIT: To be very clear, losing items, losing levels, losing prestige, losing abilities...these are all not true losses since they can be gained back simply by playing more. Nothing is LOST, they are only temporarily gone without. Only with a real negative end-state to the campaign and a risk of that negative end-state being reached is there actual LOSS in any sense for the PCs.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="HJFudge, post: 8245350, member: 6997593"] My 2 cents here: If there is no loss state, then there is no way to 'win'. In tabletop games I play, it is very possible to lose the campaign. The two hard loss states I have usually are TPK and severe failure to stop the bad-guy. I inform everyone of this during session 0. Everyone knows its possible to lose. We have had campaign losses before. I'd say about 1/3rd of the campaigns Ive played or ran have ended due to a Loss State. Note: We don't stop playing, we just start a new campaign. We as players do not lose out on game night or game time! Someone almost always has a campaign idea waiting in the wings to be tried out :) I do not enjoy games where it is impossible to lose. Where whilst I may face minor setbacks or obstacles or loss, if I cannot truly LOSE the game then my choices feel empty. After all, any choice at all leads to an eventual victory in some form or another. That said, this fear of losing is NOT what motivates me when I play or my players. Fear of loss might be in there for the characters, as in they fear being unable to save the world, losing their loved ones, whatever...but there are plenty of other motivators throughout the game that drive the party. These usually involve greed of one form or another. Getting that next level, or that next power, or that next item. Often it is also revenge for previous losses incurred that motivate the player. That long time NPC who burnt down our parties castle...we're gonna make him pay! But again, if a game cannot be lost, I see no point in playing. If I wanted that, theres a book right there I can just read it. The end is known from the beginning and no decisions are of actual consequence except for one: The decision to just not play. There can be no triumph without real risk of losing the game. For me, anyway. EDIT: To be very clear, losing items, losing levels, losing prestige, losing abilities...these are all not true losses since they can be gained back simply by playing more. Nothing is LOST, they are only temporarily gone without. Only with a real negative end-state to the campaign and a risk of that negative end-state being reached is there actual LOSS in any sense for the PCs. [/QUOTE]
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