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"Hot Take": Fear is a bad motivator
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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 8245723" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>Which would put you in the group I mentioned, numerous times throughout my OP, that these thoughts do not apply to. And would mean that a healthy game culture would recognize that, <em>for some people</em>, fear in general and fear of character death specifically remain a vitally important part of the play experience....while also recognizing that <em>other</em> people, like me and my players, really won't enjoy the game as much if they are <em>expected</em> to play a game with fear in the central, starring role.</p><p></p><p>My whole point, which I repeated several times, was that fear is <em>vastly overrated</em> as a game element (I specifically considered it as a motivator, but if you want to go more general, fine), to the point that it is treated as though it were <em>necessary</em> for a game to be a game, for a game to actually have stakes, for a game to be <em>fun</em> in any way whatsoever. I have, in fact, explicitly been told many, many, MANY times, not just that an individual <em>person</em> couldn't have fun in a game where characters can't die, but that it is IMPOSSIBLE. In this very thread, I've been repeatedly told that I'm trying to turn the game into a "participation medal" process, that absolutely no choices would matter in the kind of game I've described <em>except the choice not to play at all</em>, that what I'm describing could not even be called a "game," etc. It seems very clear to me that questioning whether death <strong>should always be</strong> part of the game draws an almost immediate response of, "Oh, so you want something where nothing EVER matters??"</p><p></p><p></p><p>It sounds, then, like you're saying you can't enjoy roleplaying a character if you are certain of what will happen to them. Why does "your character will not be Killed Off Forever" mean that you are now certain of the "script" for their life?</p><p></p><p></p><p>Again, see above. Why is death the only thing that differentiates uncertainty from "script immunity"? Just because you aren't going to be Killed Off Forever, doesn't mean you have any idea what hardships, lossess, or difficulties you will endure. I'm just telling you, you'll get to keep enduring whatever happens until it makes sense, to you, to hop off the ride.</p><p></p><p>Do you think books are dumb because you have confidence that the main character is unlikely to die in an unsatisfying way two chapters in? Or that video games are pointless and completely absent of character progression unless they're always played in Ironman Mode? This very much sounds like the attitude I'm challenging: the notion that the player can be confident they'll get to continue exploring a given character's story AUTOMATICALLY MEANS that the player thereby gains utterly unassailable, perfect confidence about exactly how every future situation will play out, no matter what.</p><p></p><p>Why is it that <em>only and exclusively</em> death qualifies for creating uncertainty?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 8245723, member: 6790260"] Which would put you in the group I mentioned, numerous times throughout my OP, that these thoughts do not apply to. And would mean that a healthy game culture would recognize that, [I]for some people[/I], fear in general and fear of character death specifically remain a vitally important part of the play experience....while also recognizing that [I]other[/I] people, like me and my players, really won't enjoy the game as much if they are [I]expected[/I] to play a game with fear in the central, starring role. My whole point, which I repeated several times, was that fear is [I]vastly overrated[/I] as a game element (I specifically considered it as a motivator, but if you want to go more general, fine), to the point that it is treated as though it were [I]necessary[/I] for a game to be a game, for a game to actually have stakes, for a game to be [I]fun[/I] in any way whatsoever. I have, in fact, explicitly been told many, many, MANY times, not just that an individual [I]person[/I] couldn't have fun in a game where characters can't die, but that it is IMPOSSIBLE. In this very thread, I've been repeatedly told that I'm trying to turn the game into a "participation medal" process, that absolutely no choices would matter in the kind of game I've described [I]except the choice not to play at all[/I], that what I'm describing could not even be called a "game," etc. It seems very clear to me that questioning whether death [B]should always be[/B] part of the game draws an almost immediate response of, "Oh, so you want something where nothing EVER matters??" It sounds, then, like you're saying you can't enjoy roleplaying a character if you are certain of what will happen to them. Why does "your character will not be Killed Off Forever" mean that you are now certain of the "script" for their life? Again, see above. Why is death the only thing that differentiates uncertainty from "script immunity"? Just because you aren't going to be Killed Off Forever, doesn't mean you have any idea what hardships, lossess, or difficulties you will endure. I'm just telling you, you'll get to keep enduring whatever happens until it makes sense, to you, to hop off the ride. Do you think books are dumb because you have confidence that the main character is unlikely to die in an unsatisfying way two chapters in? Or that video games are pointless and completely absent of character progression unless they're always played in Ironman Mode? This very much sounds like the attitude I'm challenging: the notion that the player can be confident they'll get to continue exploring a given character's story AUTOMATICALLY MEANS that the player thereby gains utterly unassailable, perfect confidence about exactly how every future situation will play out, no matter what. Why is it that [I]only and exclusively[/I] death qualifies for creating uncertainty? [/QUOTE]
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