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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 8246597" data-attributes="member: 23751">That's why I've said in some of my responses, permanent death.  It's also one of the reasons that raises are harder to come by in the games that I run.  The new character may or may not have the same goals, though.  The one that died had a personal tie with the orphanage that burned to the ground killing everyone inside.  He was the one who failed to get there in time to stop the bad guy.  His nephew was among them.  If I'm going to try and overcome a past failure to the point where I will even push to 20th level and enlist gods to help, it's going to be something very personal to my PC.  If my PC dies, my new one isn't going to have that personal connection and most likely isn't going to push to alter that state of failure.  He's going to have his own goals and connections.  As a player I will have failed to bring those orphans back.In a world where bringing people back from death is commonplace, how is failure to save an NPC or town more than a speedbump?  The curse can take longer to remove, but I have yet to see one that not even a god can remove.So far I haven't seen anything suggested by a proponent of "no death" that doesn't also happen in death campaigns...........................except no death.</blockquote>