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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 8247406" data-attributes="member: 29398">Other than by the thread's entire premise; because if permanent losses (including but not limited to death) are possible then fear of those losses is also possible, and can be a strong motivator.The focus then got put on death as the prime example of a permanent loss because in 5e - most people's default these days - there really aren't very many other examples.Perhaps our philosophies differ on a more basic level.I see D&D - and any game involving dice and random numbers - as very much a game of pure luck, where good luck means you do well and bad luck means you don't on both large and small scales.  This to me means that hard-loss conditions can be achieved by sheer bad luck; and all the caution in the world can reduce the odds of a bad-luck hard loss but can never quite completely zero them out.I do this as well.  Doesn't always help much... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Chess: no, because the rules are hard and fast.  No judgment involved, no reason to question them, and nothing to question in any case.Charades: I can't remember the last time I played it, if ever.  Hard and fast rule that I can't speak: fine.  Only gestures: fine.  Now let's push the limits on what non-verbal gestures are allowed and see what happens (e.g. if I saw the word I was trying to get across in the title of a book on the shelf I'd walk over, pull the book down, and point at the word). <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I've taken the liberty of changing the sequence of some of the quoted material below, to put similar points together.Regarding DM judgment:We're also all friends, and we communicate respectfully and sometimes very (!) forthrightly, but in the end the DM's word is final.Which in this case means it's ultimately down to the DM to consistently determine what a "light and transient cause" actually is.  Sometimes it'll be obvious.  It's the borderline cases where the DM runs a high risk of (rightly or wrongly) meeting accusations of favouritism or the opposite should a series of these calls go in favour of or against one particular player, and that's bad news all over.If instead of DM's ruling you put it to the table for consensus or a vote you're just asking for a session-long argument, and probably giving your louder players a considerable advantage; this is why we have it that the DM's word is final.Were it me as DM, I wouldn't see it as a failure in the least.  They obviously still want to play in your game, though perhaps they've had their fill of that particular storyline (or just aren't playing the type of characters that suit it); and really all they've done is thrown a curveball at you in the expectation that you'll hit it.So hit it. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Wherever they decide to go, DM that.  Wing it if you have to, you can always fill in the gaps during the week.  Let their choices drive the game and-or story.Great!Sometimes the new adventures turn out to be way more interesting than what was originally planned.  That, and as it's a simple fact of life that not every adventure or story is going to click - I think we've all seen or done that - all you can do is switch gears and keep going.I don't know DW mechanics well at all.  Does it support magic item loss or destruction?  I've seen players grow more attached to their and-or the party's magic items than to the characters carrying them.To me, that low-grade anxiety or concern around losing is part of any game; be it Monopoly or Risk or Roborally or basketball* or D&D.As for encouraging creative or unusual things, that's a laudable goal.  I simply disagree with this particular method.One thing I should point out here: experience has taught me the hard way to somewhat discourage players from getting too attached to their characters in general, as in the past I've had players who would take it far too personally if-when anything bad happened to their characters.* - in basketball there's also the not-quite-as-low grade anxiety around sustaining an actual injury.Anything that relies on judgment calls is potentially abusable.  In some cases that potential for abuse is much higher than others and in those cases I'd prefer to get it flagged and dealt with before it causes headaches rather than after.  In this particular example, where dealing with it is as easy as just saying let the dice fall where they may, it seems a little odd to me not to just do this and move on.Not at all. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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