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<blockquote data-quote="Pbartender" data-source="post: 632245" data-attributes="member: 7533">You think so?&nbsp; I'm not so sure.Remember, Saves (especially in a rule set with such low magic and there fore few ability-enhancing magic items) creep up pretty slowly, even when &quot;good&quot;.&nbsp; At 10th level, most heroes will have a base Save between +3 and +5.&nbsp; Even with Constitution modifiers added in, a DC in the teens in nothing to laugh at...&nbsp; Fort bonuses could be anywhere from +3 to +10 at 10th level.Plus, that DC 5 + damage can easily be upgraded to 10 + damage.Now, here I really disagree.&nbsp; It seems to me that the Con limit helps out the low-level guys, not the high level guys.&nbsp; The high level guys are better at making the Save regardless (especially since it's a fixed DC).&nbsp; But the Con limit saves the low-level guys from having to make the Fort save in the first place.&nbsp; And for your average Joe, he can't throw a punch (1d3 non-lethal damage), that would trigger the Fort save on another average Joe (10 constitution), even if he got a critical hit (2d3 non-lethal damage).The method I proposed would mean that...&nbsp;&nbsp; 1.&nbsp; Harder hits are more likely to knock you out than soft hits.&nbsp; 2.&nbsp; More experienced or tougher fighters are harder to knock out than your average Joe.&nbsp; 3.&nbsp; Every punch has a chance to KO or daze, no matter how small that chance may be.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Pbartender, post: 632245, member: 7533"] You think so? I'm not so sure. Remember, Saves (especially in a rule set with such low magic and there fore few ability-enhancing magic items) creep up pretty slowly, even when "good". At 10th level, most heroes will have a base Save between +3 and +5. Even with Constitution modifiers added in, a DC in the teens in nothing to laugh at... Fort bonuses could be anywhere from +3 to +10 at 10th level. Plus, that DC 5 + damage can easily be upgraded to 10 + damage. Now, here I really disagree. It seems to me that the Con limit helps out the low-level guys, not the high level guys. The high level guys are better at making the Save regardless (especially since it's a fixed DC). But the Con limit saves the low-level guys from having to make the Fort save in the first place. And for your average Joe, he can't throw a punch (1d3 non-lethal damage), that would trigger the Fort save on another average Joe (10 constitution), even if he got a critical hit (2d3 non-lethal damage). The method I proposed would mean that... 1. Harder hits are more likely to knock you out than soft hits. 2. More experienced or tougher fighters are harder to knock out than your average Joe. 3. Every punch has a chance to KO or daze, no matter how small that chance may be. [/QUOTE]

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