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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Stormonu" data-source="post: 5918299" data-attributes="member: 52734">Well, my guess is if your "bastard" is already engaged, then his weapon recovery rate already in effect.  We can assume Mr. Daggerman is moving in (smartly) when the sword-wielder is most out-of-position.  Mechanically, the sword-fighter is subtracting his Weapon Speed for already being in combat, the dagger-wielder is getting a bonus for his first round entry.<Edit>  Doh - I see I missed what you were saying.  If the swordsman didn't start the round engaged - and he's expecting to go attack someone, that'd be like resetting his Weapon Speed to 1st round and he'd get to add his Longword Weapon speed to his init.  Depending on whether the Daggerman is moving away from an engagement or his free of enemies, his weapon speed would affected appropriately as well (minus if moving from one combat to another, plus if unengaged).Good point; if melee hasn't been engaged yet, I like the old 1E/2E rules that missile fire goes first...A DM could make a ruling that a ready and nocked ranged weapon has a Weapon Speed of 1 (or 0).  However, if combat's already been going on, we're talking about moving targets.  In this case, we could assume that the sniper with the longbow might be having a harder time than his shortbow-wielding companion keeping the moving target in his sights (more bow to move and the pull is heavier, which could be factors).  Also, consider that we're generally talking about combatants who generally want to take more than one shot, so Weapon Speed is more of a "how long between strikes" than any one single blow.  The length of a longbow arrow could create a slight delay both in drawing from the quiver, nocking and pulling back the string than on a shortbow.Of more problem would be the slow-loading weapons like slings, crossbows and their ilk.  How do you factor in their slow loading time into round-to-round Weapon Speeds?We're still looking at possibly Dexterity affecting Initiative, as well as feats such as Improved Initiative being possible.  Other feats and class abilities could factor in that affect Weapon Speeds - such as the ones I mentioned in the post above to nmms.Remember;  In the first round, that great-axe wielding half-orc is more likely to get up into the fight than Mr. daggerdwarf.  However, once they're engaged, Mr. daggerdwarf is probably going to take his swipe first.This may, in some regards, aid the rogue.  Let the fighter dash in with his big weapon first, then follow him up with a quick strike and disengage before the opponent can leverage a strike against him.Weapon Speed isn't a perfect solution, but I think it adds a little spice that gives some meaning to weapon selection rather than always going for the weapon that deals the biggest die of damage.  In the end, that's what I want - an in-game reason why fighting with a knife can be just as viable a solution as running around with a longsword - or a two-handed sword.<edit>  Doh again.  If these guys aren't engaged in fighting for the round for some reason, I'd assume you'd either use their "natural" Weapon Speed or they'd have a 0.  If they're pulling back out of, or intend to be engaging in some sort of fighting, they'd use their weapons.For example, say the Half-Orc and the Dwarf state for the round they're going to grab a magic candle in the room they just found while their friends are duking it out with a Bear.  They're not intending to engage in combat, so the two of them roll init, just adding, say 1, since they're going to "grab" the candle.  For amusement's sake (considering he has a 20' speed anyways...), the dwarf reaches the candle first, and mocks the Half-Orc.  If the DM were kind, he *might* let the Half-Orc use his bare hands to try and grab the candle away from the Dwarf.  Cue opposed Strength check.  Let's say, just when the Half-Orc wrestles the candle from the Dwarf, the Bear manages to push past these two companions and it rushes the Half-Orc.  It's not like the Half-Orc can attack the bear - he's already taken his action.  The Bear is moving from one combat to the other, so his initiative doesn't change - he just barrels into the Half-Orc as the Dwarf laughs at the greenskin's predicament.  "I'll, er... hold that," the dwarf scoffs, bending down to pick up the fallen candle.  "Looks like ye got yer hands full there."</blockquote>

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