House rules for a "ninja" game

[Andor]

Ok, first things first, it's not really a ninja game. However there has been a lot of pressure on the locals to develop similar stealthy fighter traditions due to a string of conquering empires that have kept the area subjegated for most of their history.

So I'm going for a lot of that highly skilled, lightly armoured combatant feel. And I hope to add some real tension to combat, while perhaps making it slightly less lethal.

The campaign is centered on a region with several distinct ethnic/cultural groups who have all developed their own parallel "ninja" traditions. The current empire governing the area is a Centaur dominated empire modeled vaugely after the Mongol model although I'll be stealing from the roman/greek stylistic tradition. About 6 month ago the centaurs all withdrew for reasons unclear to the locals and the goblinoid jannisaries they left behind are growing confused and restless without guidance. The locals have convened a secret counsel to discuss the idea of throwing off the yoke of the empire and forming their own political union. This is where the PCs come in...

Each clan will have a different focus, and each will have different resources they produce/need leading to divergent goals and each has secrets, some of which the PCs may reveal, each will also have at least one secret they are convinced will lead to their total destruction if it is revealed.

So for options I'm planning on using the gestalt rules with one class being fixed based on the ninja tradition of the culture. So far I'm thinking of Ninja, Swordsage and Soulblade as fixed classes with Warlock, Spellthief, Scout, Binder and Dragon Shaman as possible other options I haven't decided yet.

Probably the characters will get 5 free craft/profession/knowledge skills as disguise training.

There will be a class based dodge bonus to armour class although not using the same chart as UA. This dodge bonus will be capped along with dex by armour max dex bonus.

Instead of adding to AC I'm thinking of using one or both of the armour as dr and damage conversion (as page 113 of UA). This would make result in an armoured combatant almost always surviving combat, although possibly in unconciousness.

Nontheless, I plan on making armour unattractive generally by using a hot climate, and enforcing the armour check penalties in a stealth heavy campaign.

There will be a clan that specialized in heavy armour and the feats to us it in the hot climate, but I'm undecided about them being available to the initial group of PCs.

I also like the weapon group rules from UA, and it occurs to me that it's easy to make cultural weapons groups to reflect different sets of default weapons. Oh. And there will be no difference between the sickle and the kama. *pet peeve*

Any thoughts?

 

[avr]

The classes you've named don't all have the same power level, e.g. the gap between swordsage & soulknife is similar to that between cleric & monk, maybe worse. If someone actually picks a soulknife, they're either roleplayers of the 'true roleplaying is an anti-optimised character' school, or they want to pay you off for something fairly monstrous they're doing on the other side of the gestalt.

Goblinoid janissaries will get greedy rather than confused rather fast I think. Whether for power or loot will depend on how organised they are without their centaur leaders. If the centaurs provide a lot of the military leadership, the new goblin leaders which rise up could be surprising - supply clerks, some specialists (Napoleon was a minor artillery officer once), anyone who had control of some resource and used it quickly.

Are the cultures you're using wholly or partially race-based?

Sounds cool, anyway.

 

[Andor]

You think so? I do think the Soul Knife is a weak class, but he can bring a lot of value to a gestalt with his d10 hd and access to psionic feats. Besides, in a stealth and disguise based campaign never having to try smuggling a weapon can be pretty handy. Not that a Sword Sage can't forgo a weapon for a few rounds with his Shadow hand and Desert wind strikes. Hmmm. I'll have to think about that.

I do want to keep the gestalt options toned down a trifle, that's why none of the fixed classes have a full BAB. But I do really like the sword sage class, especially in this style of campaign, it's almost perfect. Hmmm.

I'm also planning on stripping out Clerics, Druids, Shamans, Shugengas, and Favored souls. In party healing is going to have to come from (possibly) bards, psions, psychic warriors, dragon shamans or magic items.

Cultures will be partially race based, but the PCs will all come from human clans. Although there will also be a PC option of being from the Outcaste. These are sort of a combination of gypsies and eta. They are the mixed breeds left over from the earlier dominions and the outcasts, deformed, and unwanted children of the clans. So almost any near human could conceivably be there. Aasimar, tieflings, half-orcs, draconic humans, shifters, changelings. They won't have the extensive training that grants a gestalt class, but they will have access to LA races (for free) as well as the UA bloodlines to make up for it. They survive by trade, and working in the worst jobs, but they are also free to travel more than any other clan, and are almost below the law giving them a peculiar sort of immunity from petty crimes. I'm considering also giving them a reputation as folk healers and restricting the bard class to them.

 

[szilard]

Soulknife is generally weak, but it does gestalt really well with full BAB classes since the benefits of the class are fairly unique and don't overlap much with those of other melee-based classes.

-Stuart

 

[Zelc]

The armor as DR option really messes the combat math up and you should be very careful about using it. I'd stick to default rules of AC, because this is an area of math where changes can have really unintended consequences.

 

[Slaved]

Instead of a Dodge Bonus to Armor Class based on Character Level you could change Fighting Defensively to give +1 to Armor Class for every -1 Penalty to Attack Rolls that the Character takes and have the limit on the Penalty be equal to the lower of the Characters Dexterity Modifier and Maximum Dexterity Bonus of their Armor.

This would have the advantages of making the Characters less reliant on Armor while forcing them to make tough decisions during Combat.


I think that instead of using the Gestalt Rules you should just limit Class choices a little and increase all classes with the same Base plus Special School Techniques that each School would have which also progress by Character Level. The Gestalt Rules will create an imbalance from the start that can be alleviated somewhat by what I suggest below and you can worry less about giving Characters Bonus Skills.

The easy way would be to turn all Skills into Class Skills, give all Classes 8 Skill Points Per Level, make all Classes give at least d8 for Hit Dice, have all Classes have a minimum Base Attack Bonus of Medium, and gain 1 more Good Saving Throw of their choice.

Classes that gained no Skill Points from this change get 3 Bonus Feats from the choices of Skill Focus or any of the Feats which give +2 to Two Skills, Classes that gained 2 Skill Points get 2 of these Bonus feats, Classes that gained 4 Skill Points get 1 of these Bonus Feats, and Classes that gained 6 Skill Points gain none.

Classes that have a Base Attack Bonus of High already gain 1 Fighter Bonus Feat that they meet the Prerequisites for.

Classes that already have all 3 Good Saving Throws gain an Unnamed +1 Bonus to All Saving Throws and to their Armor Class.

School Techniques are gained based on the School that the Character comes from. At Low Levels they should be very simple and small while at High Levels they should be Supernatural.

 

[Jack Simth]

A couple of notes...

Armor as DR:
Does a couple of things.
1) Makes two-handed weapons even more attractive for Power Attack - when converting AC to DR, the variant does it on a one-for-one basis - so the double power attack you get with a two-handed weapon is free damage, compared to normal. Your opponent has DR 4/- and an AC of 18, rather than an AC of 22 and no DR? If you Power Attack for 4, you're looking at the same roll to hit as you would against the AC of 22, but you've got 8 points of bonus damage... 4 of which is lost to the DR. Net effect? You're dealing more damage per hit, with the same hit rate. This makes reasonably built melee opponents more deadly, not less.
2) Makes single, large attacks more attractive compared to lots of little attacks. This is because DR applies on a per-hit basis; vs. DR 4/-, 2d6+10 averages 17 damage, of which 13 penetrates DR, where as two hits of 1d6+5 each averages 8.5 damage per hit, or 17 damage for both ... of 9 penetrates the DR (because both hits soaked the DR). This makes classes and combat methods designed around a lot of attacks less effective (most notably, the Monk and two-weapon fighters). There's an exception for cases where you've got a lot of extra damage that applies on a per-hit basis (rogue vs. Sneak Attackable target, ranger vs. favored enemy, stat damage from Wounding weapons or a rogue's Crippling Strike, and so on), but for the most part, it makes single, large attacks much better than more, smaller attacks, by a lot.

As for your Gestalt pairings....

Ninja and Swordsage can rock pretty hard, especially paired with something that's Wisdom-based, such as a Druid or Cleric (Wis to AC, Wis powering most their abilities).

The Soulknife is much harder to do that with - all the Soulknife really has going for it in gestalt is the d10 hit die and two good saves. The "free" magic weapon helps somewhat, but it's not all that grand compared to what a Cleric can do with, say, Greater Magic Weapon. The Dragon Shaman and Warlock face similar issues.

 

[Andor]

A couple of notes...

Armor as DR:
Does a couple of things.
1) Makes two-handed weapons even more attractive for Power Attack - when converting AC to DR, the variant does it on a one-for-one basis - so the double power attack you get with a two-handed weapon is free damage, compared to normal. Your opponent has DR 4/- and an AC of 18, rather than an AC of 22 and no DR? If you Power Attack for 4, you're looking at the same roll to hit as you would against the AC of 22, but you've got 8 points of bonus damage... 4 of which is lost to the DR. Net effect? You're dealing more damage per hit, with the same hit rate. This makes reasonably built melee opponents more deadly, not less.

True, but if I'm using armour as DR and damage conversion the armour is both taking away 4 points of damage and turns some of it into subdual damage which goes away quickly after the fight. It also makes magical healing more effective.

2) Makes single, large attacks more attractive compared to lots of little attacks. This is because DR applies on a per-hit basis; vs. DR 4/-, 2d6+10 averages 17 damage, of which 13 penetrates DR, where as two hits of 1d6+5 each averages 8.5 damage per hit, or 17 damage for both ... of 9 penetrates the DR (because both hits soaked the DR). This makes classes and combat methods designed around a lot of attacks less effective (most notably, the Monk and two-weapon fighters). There's an exception for cases where you've got a lot of extra damage that applies on a per-hit basis (rogue vs. Sneak Attackable target, ranger vs. favored enemy, stat damage from Wounding weapons or a rogue's Crippling Strike, and so on), but for the most part, it makes single, large attacks much better than more, smaller attacks, by a lot.

True, but that's pretty much always the case anyway. And by design the characters will tend to have that sneak attack damage due to the gestalt options. Part of the feel I'm shooting for is that most fights are fast moving glass cannon on glass cannon combat where surprise and initiative are deciding factors. When the PC run into heavily armoured guys who can dish it out and take they should be suitably impressed.

As for your Gestalt pairings....

Ninja and Swordsage can rock pretty hard, especially paired with something that's Wisdom-based, such as a Druid or Cleric (Wis to AC, Wis powering most their abilities).

The Soulknife is much harder to do that with - all the Soulknife really has going for it in gestalt is the d10 hit die and two good saves. The "free" magic weapon helps somewhat, but it's not all that grand compared to what a Cleric can do with, say, Greater Magic Weapon. The Dragon Shaman and Warlock face similar issues.

Well, cleric and druid are off the table so that's not a worry. Each clan will have one or two options for the fixed class and another list for the choosable class. At first level anyway. After the game starts if they can find training, I won't stop them from shifting into another class. So the clan that give the Sword Sage as a fixed class will have a different list of secondary class options than one that gives Soul Knife or Spell thief.

Also I'm coming to the idea that magic items are pretty damm rare, potions and similar trinkets aside. Instead of craft feats I'll offer the item familiar rules which means almost every existing magic item will be a unique heirloom.

You know, it's probably going to take me months to write all this up...

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Some suggestions:

1) If you're going to use Soulknives (Good On Ya!), you'd do well to supplement your sourcebooks for them with Races of Eberron, Secrets of Sharlona, Hyperconscious and Dragon #341 if you haven't already.

2) The Shou Disciple from Forgotten Realms: Unaproachable East is a PrCl that gives any PC that qualifies for it a bit of armored Monk flavor.

3) Check out both Oriental Adventures (and Dragon #318's 3.5 update) and AEG's Rokugan. You'll find some handy Base classes & PrCls to use. The updated Sohei and Shaman are tasty, and Rokugan's Inkyo makes for a nifty arcanely gifted Monk.

For giggles, you can also find more options in this thread:

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=221182