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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chzbro" data-source="post: 5077405" data-attributes="member: 83964">That is a funny side-effect, but actually one that is mostly intentional.First let me say that even though 'extra effort' is a standard option in my skill challenges, it's not allowed across the board. I imagine, for example, that I would explain that option could not be used were the challenge simply negotiating with the duke (although I also don't think that I would use a skill challenge to represent a task like that...I'd want there to be considerably more involved).My friend, when he DMs, makes some really good skill challenges using the existing system. However, every challenge has slightly different mechanics, a subtle twist on the rules. I don't mind this, but I don't want to have to invent a new sub-game every time I create a skill challenge. I'd like to be able to say, "skill challenge" and have all the players have a good idea of the options they have immediately (and for those options to be more than rolling or not rolling a d20).I also noticed skill challenges (as I had experienced them at the time) represented gameplay where characters rarely had to expend any resources. Furthermore, there was rarely a significant penalty for failure (although I notice that players, as a rule, still don't like to fail). What I want is for players to be engaged by the challenge on multiple levels--not only in the roleplay/story sense, but also the gameplay/mechanics...just like they are in a good fight.Now I'm not prepared to suggest that my proposed houserule will necessarily achieve that (which is why everyone's imput is both helpful and appreciated), but I like the idea that with this system I can make the DCs challenging again and that I can make failure terrible again because, in most cases, players will have the option of removing failures by expending valuable resources. I also like that spending those resources carelessly might end up making the next fight all the more dangerous.At least that's the hope.What several posters have mentioned that I agree is crucial is a time limit. I like everyone to participate every round (another reason for the extra options: it gives those with weaker skills a way to participate without hurting the group, maybe even ways to be a big help), so one of the key elements to a good skill challenge (in general) is to come up with a reasonable number of goes around the table the challenge should entail.If the group of 5 needs 9 successes before 3 failures in 3 rounds, that gives them time to roll a few failures and remove a few (with healing surges), but not much else. Assuming one player opts for the "assist" each round, that only leaves 3 actions remaining for failed rolls/extra effort.  *IF* it works perfectly, that means that some players are going to have to make some hard decisions when their turns come up--do I try a hard DC for an extra success, do I remove a failure but lose a chance for a success, do we have enough time left for me to try to assist...? To me, making a decision like this would make skill challenges so much more interesting than just, "do I roll or do I not roll?"If, on the other hand, it doesn't work...well, hopefully it works.Again, I appreciate all the feedback. My first try with this proposed system is in about 10 days, so please don't hesitate to contribute or to save me from making a horrible mistake.</blockquote>

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