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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 1944234" data-attributes="member: 2011">First off, this is a typical error people make when debating. They attempt to state that one spell has effect x, hence, a different spell can or cannot have effect y.The effects of a Light spell are irrelevant to the effects of the Darkness spell. What is relevant to the Darkness spell is the definition of "shadowy illumination" and nothing else.As to whether shadowy illumination and dim illumination are the same thing, you ALSO have to look at the text in the "Light and Visibility" section where dim illumination is not defined at all (in terms of game mechanics).Hence, if "shadow illumination and dim illumination are not the same thing" as you claim, then we have RULES for game mechanics for shadow illumination (e.g. 20% concealment, etc.). But, we have NO RULES for game mechanics for dim illumination in the "Light and Visibility" section.Hence, you are incorrect here as well and they do mean the same thing. Either that, or dim illumination is not defined in terms of game mechanics which makes your argument moot anyway since we are discussing shadowy illumination and not dim illumination.Except the term "shadowy illumination" (go look up what the word illumination means). Both of them create shadowy illumination, hence, they both work the same way with regard to the amount of illumination.We not only have ANOTHER example of something that creates "shadowy illumination" (i.e. a candle), but the spell text does not state an exception here. It does not state that it only works in areas of brightness and shadowy illumination, and does not work in areas of darkness.Anything that creates shadowy illumination (be it a candle, a darkness spell, a deeper darkness spell) will slightly "light up" a dark area.You have no rules to support a counter position.You have an opinion, but it does not follow the rules.Total nonsense.A light spell attempts to create a bright illumination.A darkness spell attempts to create a shadowy illumination.They negate each other.The fact that they negate each other says NOTHING about what effect is actually created.The text is clear.Light IS produced by a Darkness spell. It is a very dim light defined by the term "shadowy illumination".From this, one can correctly conclude that the Light descriptor means bright light and the Darkness descriptor means dim or shadowy light.It is still light in both cases.</blockquote>

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