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<blockquote data-quote="Greenfield" data-source="post: 5714446" data-attributes="member: 6669384">And this is where I'm using logic instead of jumping to conclusions.No, I'm not saying that they're real.&nbsp; They're illusions, but the location of that illusion, the place where it can be detected, is exactly where the observer perceives it to be.&nbsp; That is, at the location specified by the spell caster, which is withing the limits of the range and area described in the spell in the PHB.&nbsp; Not in the minds of the observers.No.&nbsp; See above.Well, you are fooling yourself if your eyes see the words I wrote, and your mind concludes that I was saying something else.&nbsp; I never said they were conjurations, I never said they were &quot;real&quot;.And, while I won't comment on your status as a super genius, I will point out that I'm not trying to &quot;break all the rules at once&quot;.&nbsp; I'm following the rules, exactly as written in the PHB.&nbsp; The only person here who seems to be advocating anything other than RAW is you.How to respond to this...&nbsp; This is the first (and I hope last) attempt I've seen to bring physics into the discussion.&nbsp; Physics has no place in a discussion of magic.&nbsp; I'll break out the hamster cannon to prove it, if necessary.&nbsp; (Don't make me go there.)Is your line of logic better than simply reading the rules and following them?&nbsp; That's a matter of opinion, obviously.&nbsp; You think so, I don't.Do the rules, as written, make illusions severely weak?&nbsp; Yeah, and maybe that's an overcompensation for them being obscenely strong without some kind of damper.&nbsp; The sheer versatility of the illusion spells makes them powerful far beyond their levels.&nbsp; Used subtley they'll slide right past the Detedct Magic issue without a blip and still wreak havoc on adversaries.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Greenfield, post: 5714446, member: 6669384"] And this is where I'm using logic instead of jumping to conclusions. No, I'm not saying that they're real. They're illusions, but the location of that illusion, the place where it can be detected, is exactly where the observer perceives it to be. That is, at the location specified by the spell caster, which is withing the limits of the range and area described in the spell in the PHB. Not in the minds of the observers. No. See above. Well, you are fooling yourself if your eyes see the words I wrote, and your mind concludes that I was saying something else. I never said they were conjurations, I never said they were "real". And, while I won't comment on your status as a super genius, I will point out that I'm not trying to "break all the rules at once". I'm following the rules, exactly as written in the PHB. The only person here who seems to be advocating anything other than RAW is you. How to respond to this... This is the first (and I hope last) attempt I've seen to bring physics into the discussion. Physics has no place in a discussion of magic. I'll break out the hamster cannon to prove it, if necessary. (Don't make me go there.) Is your line of logic better than simply reading the rules and following them? That's a matter of opinion, obviously. You think so, I don't. Do the rules, as written, make illusions severely weak? Yeah, and maybe that's an overcompensation for them being obscenely strong without some kind of damper. The sheer versatility of the illusion spells makes them powerful far beyond their levels. Used subtley they'll slide right past the [I]Detedct Magic[/I] issue without a blip and still wreak havoc on adversaries. [/QUOTE]

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