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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jimlock" data-source="post: 5720423" data-attributes="member: 6674931">What you are obviously missing, is the fact that THE WILL SAVE IS POINTLESS It makes no difference whatsoever. Any player with an intelligence of 2 will throw something at the illusion, touch the illusion, probe it with a stick... once he has already detected it as an illusion. It's common sense really. I've yet to see a player who has detected an illusion and somehow still missed solving the puzzle. Knowing it's an illusion means you are 99% there... the other 1% requires nothing more than an infants intelligence.OK... lets see what you 've got so far --->Permanent Image: 6th level spell"Extended" Magic Aura: 1+1= 2nd level spell....Up until now, we have a 6th level spell and a 2nd level spell at work... so as to face a mighty 0 level cantrip.... wow....Jack... what you are suggesting is insane.... Listen to what you are saying!!You are actually suggesting that a powerful wizard, in order to protect himself with his high level Illusions (4th - 5th -6th -7th level) from a 0 level cantrip, he has to expend all his 2nd level spells on a daily basis!!!! I mean not only can't he face the 0 level spell with those powerful spells as the are (levels from 4th to 7th) but he ALSO has to lose all 2nd level spells!!!!!I'm not sure if you understand it... but your very arguments work against you.Oh... and one more thing... MAGIC AURA CANNOT BE USED WITH PERMANENT IMAGE, OR WITH ANY ANY OTHER "IMAGE" SPELL (SILENT, MINOR, MAJOR, PERSISTENT, PROGRAMMED) , OR WITH ILLUSORY WALL, OR WITH HALLUCINATORY TERRAIN, OR WITH MIRAGE ARCANA.I know you hate my fonts and letter size, but you insist on something CLEARLY wrong, and you better realize it now before you write another post based on the same false assumptions. Proof?...Here you go:The above mentioned illusions, are CLEARLY not objects, nor are they cast on objects... they are simply cast in space without target. NOTHING can change their auras.as for....Don't worry, I got it. Thing is you keep on hinting how Magic Aura can save the day, and you keep on mentioning Magic Aura alongside with Figment spells.No matter how many illusion auras you manage to put on actual things (a costly process in and on itself), figments will always register as illusions, no matter what you do, and PCs will always try to find what they are. ALWAYS. Even if they 've run into illusion-like traps in the past they will still examine things.Now that it's CLEAR that your 88.000 Magic Aura's are worthless because they CANNOT be used with your Figments, lets see how many castings of Detect Magic the intruder(s) will have? ....Including scrolls?... or... wands?.... I know any sane player/caster has a few detect magic scrolls on him. They are extra cheap and easy to get.or... the possibility of a permanent Detect Magic? I'm sure that we can allow the intruder a single 5th level spell... when he's dealing with a wizard who can cast spells up to 7th level.... right?...please... Detect magic is one minute per level. 10th CL X 3 = half an hour. In half an hour the intruder would have swiped the dungeon clean.Ohhh... come on Jack!!! I can throw flour at the damn thing! I can throw sand!! I can go ahead and touch it... barehanded or with a stick!!!! ....I can think of a 1000 ways of checking out the illusion without making a sound... do you really want me to spell them out for you?Not so.First, different sound (quite easy to figure out).Second, any other dust like ingredient would work just fine. Poking it with a stick or barehanded gets the job done without a sweat as well.Third, no door is aligned with its adjacent walls. In most cases the peddle would disappear before hitting the door. Someone who's got his eyes fixed on the peddle (because he wants to see how the peddle reacts to the surface), will easily notice any such weird incident.Not really, any of the above methods will prove that the wall is not real, and then I can instantly see the door behind the translucent figment.See my previous post on how this happens by RAW.....But all this discussion is pointless... it really is.. because you are wasting resources, powerful spells... you are throwing everything you've got so as to counter a single cantrip.You are even creating traps/illusions (again through heavy spellcasting) so as to counter Detect Magic attempts ONLY.... ....and you never really get the job done... because once "something" is detected, people are gonna get interested in it... and sooner or later they will get to it, no matter how layers you put one on top of the other. And again... those layers cost time, spells and probably money... while detect magic costs nothing.PCs should be smart and come up with intelligent ways of revealing illusions in a dungeon... they shouldn't simply detect them. To me there is nothing fun or interesting in that.As mentioned countless times above the analogy is SO bad. The Illusionist has to spent A LOT (of spells...money..time) in order to make his illusions effective against a PC using the cantrip. Meta game DMing? Really?Wow... nice touch. Nice way to prove Detect Magic is not broken.I finally agree with this, although one could make a case that the subject is always the caster and that he casts it on one creature or object so as to get its aura...But the spell is much more fun with your reading... (probably the correct one, I admit)You talk about chess... and more chess.... and more chess...IMHO, what you don't realize is that the only one who has to play the chess is the illusionist.The detector, does not not even know the basics of chess. He simply casts Detect Magic... or has it permanently on him for his convenience...</blockquote>

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