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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8257554" data-attributes="member: 93670">This is a good summary of the way 2e handled magic item churn, 3.x still had a system though.&nbsp; Instead of the dreaded magic item saving throws 3.5 had the body slots (dmg288/phb whatever) &amp; a treadmill where creatures were designed so players would continually need to replace that +1 with a +2 &amp; so on for weapon &amp; attribute bonuses to keep up in order to move away from the fun killing item saving throws.&nbsp; I mostly skipped 4e but think that took the 3.5 method up a notch.&nbsp; It's 5e alone that takes pains to ensure any magic item is always good enough &amp; equally good at every level rather than &quot;newer editions&quot; after 2e.WRT your question at the end, adding them to 5e would be an epic disaster that would make the pants wetting terror a 3.5 gm could invoke by uttering the words &quot;casts <a href="https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magesDisjunction.htm" target="_blank">disjunction</a>&quot; look like a carnival ride.&nbsp; I say that because of two reasons really, assumed permanence as well as how many of 5e's magic items often wind up&nbsp; looking like something that would be right at home in the<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_Level_Handbook" target="_blank"> epic level handbook</a>.&nbsp; I think&nbsp; the 3.5 method could be somehow bolted onto 5e with significant effort &amp; player pushback by:<ul>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Make some headroom across the board by dramatically lower the starting array to something like <a href="https://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Ability_Arrays_(3.5e_Variant_Rule)" target="_blank">12, 12, 12, 11, 10, 9</a> or less</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">introduce the need for 3.5 style churn by raising monster proficiency bonus on attacks &amp; spell saves by around 150-200%&amp; add the same value to their saves/AC/spell DC</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Provide churnable magic items by getting rid of attrib=19 stuff &amp; replacing it with attrib +2/+4/+6 items that use body slots with their own slot affinities(also 3.5 dmg288) </li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Attunement can stay for oddball items that sidestep slots like broom of flying pearl of power &amp; so on but it's just too limited to support 3.x style churn.</li>
</ul>Unfortunately there is the issues of &quot;you are an evil gm making us weaker so we can buy our power back with magic items!&quot;, &quot;how do I do that on dndbeyond?&quot;, &quot;the need to rework most every magic item to some degree so they don't thwart the goal of churn &quot;, and &quot;whatever unforeseen hurdles that could present themselves&quot;.&nbsp; The lack of a 5e wealth by level system &amp; bonkers price range by rarity system might be an eventual frustration as well but 3.5's might at least give a ballpark starting point estimate for WBL &amp; pricing.[USER=6689169]@Lord Shark[/USER] I remember my group using the item saving throws sometimes but they were a poor method of introducing item churn as they were both too wide of a net &amp; too random for providing any meaningful pressure to replace them</blockquote>

[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 8257554, member: 93670"] This is a good summary of the way 2e handled magic item churn, 3.x still had a system though. Instead of the dreaded magic item saving throws 3.5 had the body slots (dmg288/phb whatever) & a treadmill where creatures were designed so players would continually need to replace that +1 with a +2 & so on for weapon & attribute bonuses to keep up in order to move away from the fun killing item saving throws. I mostly skipped 4e but think that took the 3.5 method up a notch. It's 5e alone that takes pains to ensure any magic item is always good enough & equally good at every level rather than "newer editions" after 2e. WRT your question at the end, adding them to 5e would be an epic disaster that would make the pants wetting terror a 3.5 gm could invoke by uttering the words "casts [URL='https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magesDisjunction.htm']disjunction[/URL]" look like a carnival ride. I say that because of two reasons really, assumed permanence as well as how many of 5e's magic items often wind up looking like something that would be right at home in the[URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_Level_Handbook'] epic level handbook[/URL]. I think the 3.5 method could be somehow bolted onto 5e with significant effort & player pushback by: [LIST] [*]Make some headroom across the board by dramatically lower the starting array to something like [URL='https://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Ability_Arrays_(3.5e_Variant_Rule)']12, 12, 12, 11, 10, 9[/URL] or less [*]introduce the need for 3.5 style churn by raising monster proficiency bonus on attacks & spell saves by around 150-200%& add the same value to their saves/AC/spell DC [*]Provide churnable magic items by getting rid of attrib=19 stuff & replacing it with attrib +2/+4/+6 items that use body slots with their own slot affinities(also 3.5 dmg288) [*]Attunement can stay for oddball items that sidestep slots like broom of flying pearl of power & so on but it's just too limited to support 3.x style churn. [/LIST] Unfortunately there is the issues of [I]"you are an evil gm making us weaker so we can buy our power back with magic items!"[/I], [I]"how do I do that on dndbeyond?",[/I] [I]"the need to rework most every magic item to some degree so they don't thwart the goal of churn[/I] ", and [I]"whatever unforeseen hurdles that could present themselves". [/I]The lack of a 5e wealth by level system & bonkers price range by rarity system might be an eventual frustration as well but 3.5's might at least give a ballpark starting point estimate for WBL & pricing. [USER=6689169]@Lord Shark[/USER] I remember my group using the item saving throws sometimes but they were a poor method of introducing item churn as they were both too wide of a net & too random for providing any meaningful pressure to replace them [/QUOTE]

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