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<blockquote data-quote="Gus L" data-source="post: 9382725" data-attributes="member: 7045072">Of course it's more complex - and yes Game Wizards has interesting things in it.&nbsp; I don't intend to reduce things to a simple Gygax Good/Arneson Bad, but think it's definately worth looking at some of the developments in D&amp;D, and especially the shift towards AD&amp;D, tournament play, and Gygax's self-promotion.This last part is a place where I'd say that Gygax deserves the bad reputation he's developed since the 1990's - the birth of D&amp;D was a collective effort, and Gygax's tireless efforts to make it all about Gary Gygax are something that's hidden a lot of great things. That isn't to say Arneson was great.&nbsp; I spent a bit of time around him in the late 80's and he was certainly trying to build his brand and prosecute his beefs with Gygax/TSR as well.The myth making around both figures is a bit much and personally I like to twit them both a bit when I can.In general, I agree that the early TSR era presented some solidification of a play style and efforts to control the direction and nature of RPGs. The changes in tone from the OD&amp;D intros, such as Blackmoor, or even Eldritch Wizardry, to that of the PHB are telling here. There's also the issue that B1 is frankly an inferior adventure as it's &quot;fill in the blanks&quot; method ends up breaking down the coherence and internal logic of the dungeon.&nbsp; Likewise the place is extremely low on treasure, and despite some lovely touches it is a much less interesting and fun adventure then B2 (despite B2's flaws).&nbsp; I don't know though how much B2 succeeds at stamping the Gygaxian style - I'd suggest it fails in significant ways, largely because the sort of wargaming Lake Geneva style, while it remains somewhat stronger in the AD&amp;D line (largely thanks to tournament modules) fails to take root in B/X, and with BECMI and B5 one sees the &quot;Trad&quot; style of more story-focused and often heavy-handed design starting to take over.&nbsp; This though may be at least partially the result of other outside forces beyond TSR's internal direction, but it's interesting and visible in all the ways D&amp;D has evolved since BECMI.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Gus L, post: 9382725, member: 7045072"] Of course it's more complex - and yes [I]Game Wizards [/I]has interesting things in it. I don't intend to reduce things to a simple Gygax Good/Arneson Bad, but think it's definately worth looking at some of the developments in D&D, and especially the shift towards AD&D, tournament play, and Gygax's self-promotion. This last part is a place where I'd say that Gygax deserves the bad reputation he's developed since the 1990's - the birth of D&D was a collective effort, and Gygax's tireless efforts to make it all about Gary Gygax are something that's hidden a lot of great things. That isn't to say Arneson was great. I spent a bit of time around him in the late 80's and he was certainly trying to build his brand and prosecute his beefs with Gygax/TSR as well. The myth making around both figures is a bit much and personally I like to twit them both a bit when I can. In general, I agree that the early TSR era presented some solidification of a play style and efforts to control the direction and nature of RPGs. The changes in tone from the OD&D intros, such as Blackmoor, or even Eldritch Wizardry, to that of the PHB are telling here. There's also the issue that B1 is frankly an inferior adventure as it's "fill in the blanks" method ends up breaking down the coherence and internal logic of the dungeon. Likewise the place is extremely low on treasure, and despite some lovely touches it is a much less interesting and fun adventure then B2 (despite B2's flaws). I don't know though how much B2 succeeds at stamping the Gygaxian style - I'd suggest it fails in significant ways, largely because the sort of wargaming Lake Geneva style, while it remains somewhat stronger in the AD&D line (largely thanks to tournament modules) fails to take root in B/X, and with BECMI and B5 one sees the "Trad" style of more story-focused and often heavy-handed design starting to take over. This though may be at least partially the result of other outside forces beyond TSR's internal direction, but it's interesting and visible in all the ways D&D has evolved since BECMI. [/QUOTE]

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