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<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 4967872" data-attributes="member: 2011">It just seems to me that products that are designed for the PCs to fail (and to even get TPKed) will result in failure for some groups of players. I don't consider intentionally TPK design like this to be &quot;fun&quot;.Not too unlike some of the WotC adventures where the designers do not take into account the actual game guidelines with respect to foes, treasure, etc.Case in point: Irontooth in Keep of the Shadowfell (which similar to your example above, is a scenario which is poorly designed to have many DM's games have a TPK).When a company does this, we should not reward them by buying their product. IMO. We should hold them to a standard that results in challenging adventures, but not ones with a strong possibility of TPKs.As a side note, adventure modules should either not hand out treasure and have the DM assign treasure based on his campaign, or it should hand out treasure as per the DMG guidelines. This too, to me, is an adventure design flaw when treasure is screwed up. Not all DMs have the time to read all of the posts on message boards to find out which adventures have issues and which do not.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 4967872, member: 2011"] It just seems to me that products that are designed for the PCs to fail (and to even get TPKed) will result in failure for some groups of players. I don't consider intentionally TPK design like this to be "fun". Not too unlike some of the WotC adventures where the designers do not take into account the actual game guidelines with respect to foes, treasure, etc. Case in point: Irontooth in Keep of the Shadowfell (which similar to your example above, is a scenario which is poorly designed to have many DM's games have a TPK). When a company does this, we should not reward them by buying their product. IMO. We should hold them to a standard that results in challenging adventures, but not ones with a strong possibility of TPKs. As a side note, adventure modules should either not hand out treasure and have the DM assign treasure based on his campaign, or it should hand out treasure as per the DMG guidelines. This too, to me, is an adventure design flaw when treasure is screwed up. Not all DMs have the time to read all of the posts on message boards to find out which adventures have issues and which do not. [/QUOTE]

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