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<blockquote data-quote="UngeheuerLich" data-source="post: 4970340" data-attributes="member: 59057">no, not really dumb, but too cautious. They also didn´t really know what awaits them and decided it is better to set a trap. Battlerager vigor however spoiled their plan. (Better weapons against minions doesn´t do that much)&nbsp;And the PCs had enough experience for lvl 2 before the encounter but didn´t do an extended rest. So I didn´t want a TPK there. Especially not a TPK that close.&nbsp;Maybe the designers were a bit annoyed that common believe was PCs are too tough at lvl 1, so maybe they designed this encounter consciously as a near TPK. (The encounter level should be a hint)&nbsp;to scores: i don´t think scores are worth so much more in 4e. It is&nbsp; just that you had a big gap where stats don´t count anything in 2nd edition.&nbsp;In 2nd edition you could always make use of 16 con, dex 18 and your main score for every class.&nbsp;its a big difference in HP, AC and damage. (compare str 15 fighter with 14 con to a fighter with 18 str and 18 con) &nbsp;but the difference between 9 con and 14 con is very low.&nbsp;to come back to the topic:&nbsp;the dragon in ADnd had very low (good) AC and high magic resistance and good ranged attacks. Staying at range against a typical party whithout potions of flying meant TPK. And then the dragon could retreat until potions and spells wore off and attack again later. &nbsp;The difference however doesn´t really ly in the rules, but in the mindset of the players. When you had to face overwhelming odds you began thinking out of the rules what you can do to stack the odds in your favour.&nbsp;1. Try to get onto the dragon and attack2. Use illusion spells to shape the surrounding3. Use terrain to your favour&nbsp;You have at least option 1 and 3 in 4e to get an advantage.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="UngeheuerLich, post: 4970340, member: 59057"] no, not really dumb, but too cautious. They also didn´t really know what awaits them and decided it is better to set a trap. Battlerager vigor however spoiled their plan. (Better weapons against minions doesn´t do that much) And the PCs had enough experience for lvl 2 before the encounter but didn´t do an extended rest. So I didn´t want a TPK there. Especially not a TPK that close. Maybe the designers were a bit annoyed that common believe was PCs are too tough at lvl 1, so maybe they designed this encounter consciously as a near TPK. (The encounter level should be a hint) to scores: i don´t think scores are worth so much more in 4e. It is just that you had a big gap where stats don´t count anything in 2nd edition. In 2nd edition you could always make use of 16 con, dex 18 and your main score for every class. its a big difference in HP, AC and damage. (compare str 15 fighter with 14 con to a fighter with 18 str and 18 con) but the difference between 9 con and 14 con is very low. to come back to the topic: the dragon in ADnd had very low (good) AC and high magic resistance and good ranged attacks. Staying at range against a typical party whithout potions of flying meant TPK. And then the dragon could retreat until potions and spells wore off and attack again later. The difference however doesn´t really ly in the rules, but in the mindset of the players. When you had to face overwhelming odds you began thinking out of the rules what you can do to stack the odds in your favour. 1. Try to get onto the dragon and attack 2. Use illusion spells to shape the surrounding 3. Use terrain to your favour You have at least option 1 and 3 in 4e to get an advantage. [/QUOTE]

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