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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Retreater" data-source="post: 3255788" data-attributes="member: 42040">Well, if we're talking about classes that can be fun to roleplay and interact with NPCs, then the bards are certainly equal to all of the other classes. However, for that matter, an NPC-classed aristocrat or even a commoner can be just as enjoyable. But can those classes stand up to the rigors of harsh dungeon adventuring and wilderness travel, probably not.In response to some of Darklone's comments....How expensive is a Celestial chain shirt anyway? Probably pretty pricey. Now granted you can stack enhancement bonuses on a chain shirt that you can't with mage armor, but that does add up. A better build would be a psion with inertial armor that you can augment to provide better AC. (In our Freeport campaign my psion has a higher AC than even the party's tanks.)My point was that bardic knowledge is really vague in the rules. It needs to have some quantiable mechanic behind it, besides just DC 10 basic information, DC 15 a little more than basic information, etc. Let them learn about weaknesses to opponents, convert their knowledge into bonuses to hit and damage (or even deal additional damage die like a sneak attack). Intelligence and Wisdom aren't dump stats like Charisma, depending on the character. Wisdom provides a bonus to Will Saves and to Spot and Listen checks (two of the most heavily used skills in the game). Intelligence gives more skill points and can be used by any character class (though bruisers would probably need to invest more in Strength and Constitution). In fact, when I create rogues, I usually put Intelligence as my second highest ability score (behind Dexterity) to get great bonuses on all those thieving skills.The problem about inspire courage is that it takes a standard action to maintain concentration on the ability to keep the party going. Meaning you can do nothing else. Unless you want to drop it, in which case it will last another 5 rounds. Compare that to a cleric's bless (which does about the same thing); bless lasts for a minute/level and the cleric can use other class abilities (including casting in full armor and shield, turning undead, casting other spells) while the bard can do nothing else but sing.So if I'm not using the bard correctly, how is it done? Retreater</blockquote>

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