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Message: <blockquote data-quote="tintagel" data-source="post: 4481207" data-attributes="member: 42161">Those examples are as weak as a baby's fart.  Let me explain.Wand & heal:  You have to max out Use magical device AND have a decent charisma (read: certain build) to use wands fairly reliably.  Also, most wands were 1d8+1 healing and I know NO rogue that wants to be heal-bitch for 1d8+1 while others have their fun and play their class to the fullest.  Don't forget that the 4E pally can also "heal people" and use other class abilities too!  YAY!Appropriate Crystal:  That's not core PHB.  4E is only in the infancy stage of splatbooks.  Crystals didn't come out until Year 6 or so of 3rd edition.  Where were they from 1975 - 2006?  What crystal can a mage slap on his fireballs to hurt iron golems or penetrate anti-magic fields?  What if you don't own that particular splatbook, or DM thinks crystals or overpowered?  What then?  Weaksauce.Set a Trap: <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f615.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":confused:" title="Confused    :confused:"  data-smilie="5"data-shortname=":confused:" />  Seriously?  In combat?  Versus a hasted clay golem or 5 shadows, or 4 specters, or black pudding??  <img src="http://members.shaw.ca/wenpigsfly/smileys/roflmao.gif" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" />.  I mean, do you KNOW how much <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/traps.htm#cr7Traps" target="_blank">traps cost,</a> or the Craft time???  A CR 7 trap (a worthy challenge for a CR 10 clay golem) is only about 20,000 gp...  Oh, man, I am dying here... I can't breathe.... <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/laugh.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing    :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" />Use a Scroll:  let's try to remember that Clay Golems (and most for that matter) are IMMUNE to magic - leaving most of your offensive scrolls out of the question, except conjuration.  Also, scrolls ain't cheap, especially if you are going above 1st or 2nd level.Look, all of your examples could be used for the 4E pally too.  He could just buy 10 healing potions and use minor actions each round to gulp them down, ya know.  He could also *GASP* multi-class or Build His Guy Differently (as your wand & scroll wielding rogue did).  Hey, at least 4th let's him even think about respeccing.  You can't seriously say that 4E is flawed because a Pally without armor is weaker in 4th than without.  A Pally in ANY version of D&D without armor was gimped. Seriously...  still laughing here...</blockquote>

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