Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
How Badly Do Randomly Rolled Stats Affect 4E Math?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Dr_Ruminahui" data-source="post: 5211482" data-attributes="member: 81104"><p>I also DM a campaign where I allowed the players to roll, but my experience is not similar to Iron Sky's.</p><p></p><p>I have 5 players. 3 rolled pretty well (above point buy), with one of those being really quite good (I think he had 3 17s, a 15, and then some lower teened stats). 2 rolled poorly, and I let them use point buy instead.</p><p></p><p>My findings are that it hasn't made much difference. Certainly, by allowing the unlucky to use point buy, there is no feel of unballance as between the various players. Indeed, the only character with an 18 pre-racial in a stat is one of the point buy characters. Indeed, its fairly unlikely for a rolled character to have an 18, so in the builds that favour an 18 pre-racial in a stat, point buy will actually have a better prime stat.</p><p></p><p>So, rolling DOESN'T give one an advantage as to their prime stat - so, rolling/point buy characters will have similar to hits and damage will be appropriate for their class and role. It likely does give a boost to their secondary and certainly their tertiary - this makes effects and boosts triggered off of those stats more powerful. It likely gives characters a bit higher con (and a few more HPs). It increases skills and NADs that aren't based on the prime stat. The big effect is that it makes it much easier to meet feats with attribute requirements, therefore opening up options that a character would not have otherwise had.</p><p></p><p>Some of these changes I like - for example, I like that it narrows the gap between the high skills and the low skills in the party, making more skills viable for skill challenges and helping reduce it being the same guy who always uses diplomacy, for example.</p><p></p><p>I too find that n or n+1 encounters are easy, n+2 or n+3 are average and only n+4 or above are difficult. That said, I don't think that's because of allowing rolled stats. Rather, other factors such as player tactics, not being a "balls to the wall" GM who uses the best tactical options for his monsters, lots of party healing and generally short adventuring days play a bigger role.</p><p></p><p>My experience as a PC matches this - I had a warlock with rolled stats. When PH2 came out, the DM let me remake the character as a sorceror, as that better matched the character concept. When I did so, I also got the DM's permission to ditch my rolled stats and use point buy instead - the rolled stats were on average better, but using point buy let me get better stats in the attributes that actually mattered to me.</p><p></p><p>That said, my players are not optimisers, and have not hit paragon yet, so your mileage may vary.</p><p></p><p>My own opinion is that you should simply tailor your encounters to the level that is fun for your party, point by or not point. Then, tailor the experience to match the pace of progression that's good for your players and the campaign. Myself, I simply use more challenging encounters (I like having a lot of monsters on the board - makes the party wizard feel useful), and give normal XP for them. I don't give out quest XP, however.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Dr_Ruminahui, post: 5211482, member: 81104"] I also DM a campaign where I allowed the players to roll, but my experience is not similar to Iron Sky's. I have 5 players. 3 rolled pretty well (above point buy), with one of those being really quite good (I think he had 3 17s, a 15, and then some lower teened stats). 2 rolled poorly, and I let them use point buy instead. My findings are that it hasn't made much difference. Certainly, by allowing the unlucky to use point buy, there is no feel of unballance as between the various players. Indeed, the only character with an 18 pre-racial in a stat is one of the point buy characters. Indeed, its fairly unlikely for a rolled character to have an 18, so in the builds that favour an 18 pre-racial in a stat, point buy will actually have a better prime stat. So, rolling DOESN'T give one an advantage as to their prime stat - so, rolling/point buy characters will have similar to hits and damage will be appropriate for their class and role. It likely does give a boost to their secondary and certainly their tertiary - this makes effects and boosts triggered off of those stats more powerful. It likely gives characters a bit higher con (and a few more HPs). It increases skills and NADs that aren't based on the prime stat. The big effect is that it makes it much easier to meet feats with attribute requirements, therefore opening up options that a character would not have otherwise had. Some of these changes I like - for example, I like that it narrows the gap between the high skills and the low skills in the party, making more skills viable for skill challenges and helping reduce it being the same guy who always uses diplomacy, for example. I too find that n or n+1 encounters are easy, n+2 or n+3 are average and only n+4 or above are difficult. That said, I don't think that's because of allowing rolled stats. Rather, other factors such as player tactics, not being a "balls to the wall" GM who uses the best tactical options for his monsters, lots of party healing and generally short adventuring days play a bigger role. My experience as a PC matches this - I had a warlock with rolled stats. When PH2 came out, the DM let me remake the character as a sorceror, as that better matched the character concept. When I did so, I also got the DM's permission to ditch my rolled stats and use point buy instead - the rolled stats were on average better, but using point buy let me get better stats in the attributes that actually mattered to me. That said, my players are not optimisers, and have not hit paragon yet, so your mileage may vary. My own opinion is that you should simply tailor your encounters to the level that is fun for your party, point by or not point. Then, tailor the experience to match the pace of progression that's good for your players and the campaign. Myself, I simply use more challenging encounters (I like having a lot of monsters on the board - makes the party wizard feel useful), and give normal XP for them. I don't give out quest XP, however. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
How Badly Do Randomly Rolled Stats Affect 4E Math?
Top