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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dungeoneer" data-source="post: 6345454" data-attributes="member: 91777">I don't think that the situation you describe of every character design choice being equal is something that crops up in very many RPGs. Even RPGs that emphasize 'balance' generally acknowledge that different types of characters are going to do different things. If you are playing a computer hacker and I am playing a mercenary we will probably both be okay if you are better at hacking and I am better at shooting. A system where your hacking did just as much damage to opponents as my shooting would be silly. Conversely, I shouldn't be able to hack things by shooting them.Of course, this brings up the question: what percentage of the game is going to involve situations where hacking is useful as opposed to situations where shooting is useful?If the game is going to take place in a futuristic war-torn city where the power is out, suddenly the hacker gets a lot less useful. And I think this is where we run into concerns about 'balance'.I think [MENTION=177]Umbran[/MENTION] hit the nail on the head: there's 'effective', there's 'optima'l... and then there's 'ineffective'. When a player suddenly comes to the realization that their character is 'ineffective' and that they are not having fun, then we have a problem.This is true in theory. In practice, games and the people playing them will often tend towards combat. If a game's rulebook has twenty pages of weapon choices and two pages on hacking, I think it's safe to assume that combat is going to be a bigger part of the game than breaking into computers. In which case we need to think about how hackers can feel like they are contributing in combat situations. How about, so long as the player is AWARE of that. I think this is where the problem lies. Games where the character types have power differentials at later levels have the potential to feel like traps for inexperienced players. Players pick a character because they think it seems cool. They seldom think to ask if it will be rendered ineffectual at later levels. A game where character types make a trade-off between early and late power has a good chance of turning into a trap for players who make the 'wrong' decision at the very beginning.Here's a completely hypothetical scenario: in my cyberpunk game, hackers are weak at low level but can achieve godlike abilities near the end of the game. Meanwhile, mercenaries are cool early on, but will ultimately become more or less obsolete. A new player rolls up a merc. Six months later as the party is battling virtual demigods in cyberspace he is looking at his upgraded machine gun and wondering where it all went wrong. The worst part is that he has six months invested in this character, so the idea of scrapping the merc and rolling up a hacker is not very appealing. The 'choice' of early power has turned into a trap for him.I think the question you have to answer is, if bazookas are better, why doesn't everyone pick bazooka all the time? Are there costs or limitations to bazookas? Are there any scenarios at all where the paper knife would even be useful? Is the paper knife a 'trap' for new players?Here's what Dungeoneer considers 'balanced':- Characters of all types should be 'effective' in the ways that players expect (i.e., hackers should be good at hacking)- Characters of all types should be useful in the scenarios that occur most often (i.e., the hacker should be able to contribute in physical combat if there is going to be a lot of it)- The game should avoid 'trapping' players with characters that will become ineffective over the long term (hackers should not suddenly become greatly inferior to other character types 10 levels in)- Choices that are always going to be inferior should be removed or clearly marked as such ("we've added paper knives for flavor, but don't expect them to be much good against mechanized infantry!")- Giving the player the ability to adjust their characters for changing scenarios would mitigate a lot of these concerns ("My hacker just got trained in Advanced Plasma Rifles!!")</blockquote>

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