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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6348239" data-attributes="member: 4937">And when they complain, that is the point where I say something like:"You treated intelligence, wisdom, and charisma as dump stats so you could maximize your ability to deal damage in combat and your character is a big, dense, unlikeable lunk.  If you didn't actually want to play a big dumb lunk, but wanted to play a versatile character that could shine in more situations than just smashing things, why did you make your character the way you did?  I didn't force you to treat every aspect of your character except smashing things as unimportant.  You did that.  If it turns out that at times, smashing things isn't a really viable approach, and you make the rational choice to let someone else deal with the problem, well that's not really my fault."Or"You chose to play a sorcerer with six social disadvantages - shy, inept, misanthrope, second class citizen, unattractive, and unsophisticated all so you could start play as this prodigal spell user that could blow things up good.  Did you really think you could take six disadvantages and not have them come into play?  No, your charisma doesn't in fact make up the difference.  You've got a net -12 penalty on social checks for anything that isn't a fire elemental.  You walk into the room and by the rules a third of the persons in the room want to see harm come to you.  The only reason you aren't murdered outright is that not only do most people think you belong to Sir Gowin, an association that does not they think bring him credit, but legally you do belong to Sir Gowin.  So if all this is uncomfortable to you and means your character is treated less well than Sir Gowin's horse and is similarly excluded from polite society, do not forget I warned you of all of this before you started play.  If you didn't really want to explore being a shy, inept, unattractive, unsophisticated misanthrope that most people thought of as a monster, why did you take the flaws you did?  I certainly didn't make you do that."Or "If you really wanted to be the party spokesman, leader, and planner, why did you choose to play a Wookie when only one other character in the party even knows how to speak Wookie and its the engineer with no social skills?  Next time you should maybe not spend all your points on creating a melee brute if you in fact want to be involved in solving more problems than smashing things.  Try making the most of it by learning 'wookie' and getting the rest of the table to laugh, because outside of smashing things the only way your character can really contribute is comic relief."Then may I respectfully suggest you don't make a character that is useful only as a wheelbarrow.Typically I see these problems more often in point buy systems than class based systems, though they can happen with power gamers in any system.  One of the advantages of classes over point buy is that they force a player to not choose completely optimized characters.  With a well designed class system, it should be hard to create a character that is only useful in a single situation.</blockquote>

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