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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Agback" data-source="post: 807728" data-attributes="member: 5328">Re: Re: How big were the holdings of Barons?  Lords?I am afraid that these figures are slight overestimates. In England there were no dukes at all until 1337, when the earldom of Cornwall was promoted to a duchy. For 85% of the mediaeval period, the only nobles titles in England were 'lord' and 'earl'. And until Tudor times (ie. the Renaissance) there were only about sixty barons (including both earls and lesser lords) in England.Originally there were only four dukes in France (Normandy, Brittany, Gascony, and Aquitaine), and six in Germany (Saxony, Lorraine, Thuringia, Franconia, Swabia, and Bavaria) and they were practically independent.Don't get too wrapped up in the formalised hierarchies of titles. They are late, and do not reflect mediaeval realities. For example, in the French system 'marquis' is a higher title than 'comte'. But until 1228 the marquis of Gothia and the Marquis of Septimania were vassals of the Comte of Toulouse. And though 'prince' outranks 'duke' in the English and French systems, 'herzog' (supposedly the equivalent of 'duke') outranks both 'prinz' and 'furst' in the German system. Also, the formal title 'baron' or 'freiherr' was applied categorically, late, and often to people who had idiosyncratic local titles, for example the Captal de Bouch.The feudal system was not very systematic.Regards,Agback</blockquote>