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<blockquote data-quote="Badapple" data-source="post: 5979215" data-attributes="member: 71811">Productive Discussion&nbsp;A: “I hope D&amp;D Next has all the abilities of a class broken down into a point value, and I can build the character I want using points… for example I can get a wizard with more hitpoints but less spells!”&nbsp;B:&nbsp; “Brilliant!&nbsp; I agree!”&nbsp;C:&nbsp; “There are systems out there such as GURPS and Fantasy Hero that allow for that, might want to check that out”&nbsp;A:&nbsp; “Thanks, that’s where I got the idea… but there are other things about those systems I don’t like.&nbsp; I’d just like to see D&amp;D try it”&nbsp;D:&nbsp; “D&amp;D did try it.&nbsp; There was a book called Player’s Option: Skills and Powers… it went over like a lead balloon.”&nbsp;C:&nbsp; “There were things about that book I liked, but I agree… it was found to be too exploitive.&nbsp; And it’s not what I’d like to see in D&amp;D Next”&nbsp;E:&nbsp; &quot;You know... I was looking over my old copy of Skills and Powers.&nbsp; Fighters were hardly allocated any points.&nbsp; A Wizard or a Cleric could buy every single fighter ability and still have enough points left over for some cool powers.&nbsp; That suggests that when one quantifies the design of the classes into discrete components and assigns value to them that some classes were inherently more powerful than others if they are taken as a whole.&quot;&nbsp;D:&nbsp; &quot;Interesting.&nbsp; That possibly explains why fighters in future editions have been getting relative boosts in power compared to clerics and wizards.&nbsp; I wonder if the game designers behind the curtain actually do have mathematical models for character balance or if it is just done by feel and instinct&quot;&nbsp;F:&nbsp; &quot;Well my brother has a game company and the way he does it is...&quot;&nbsp;B:&nbsp; &quot;Hey lets get back to the idea of more customizable characters... is there any way D&amp;D Next could have some point buy customization and still be workable?&nbsp; Perhaps if all characters started with the same pool of points?&quot;&nbsp;Mike Mearls:&nbsp; &quot;Hey I was reading this discussion and there are some elements of Fantasy Hero I really liked.&nbsp; Our surveys have shown that customization of characters is very important to the players.&nbsp; We are going with the idea of themes and backgrounds as a class independent overlay that people can optionally add to their characters to provide more depth and customization.&nbsp; Tell us what you think&quot;.&nbsp;&nbsp;Unproductive Discussion&nbsp;A: “I hope D&amp;D Next has all the abilities of a class broken down into a point value, and I can build the character I want using points… for example I can get a wizard with more hitpoints but less spells!”&nbsp;B:&nbsp; “That’s not D&amp;D, that’s GURPS”</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Badapple, post: 5979215, member: 71811"] Productive Discussion A: “I hope D&D Next has all the abilities of a class broken down into a point value, and I can build the character I want using points… for example I can get a wizard with more hitpoints but less spells!” B: “Brilliant! I agree!” C: “There are systems out there such as GURPS and Fantasy Hero that allow for that, might want to check that out” A: “Thanks, that’s where I got the idea… but there are other things about those systems I don’t like. I’d just like to see D&D try it” D: “D&D did try it. There was a book called Player’s Option: Skills and Powers… it went over like a lead balloon.” C: “There were things about that book I liked, but I agree… it was found to be too exploitive. And it’s not what I’d like to see in D&D Next” E: "You know... I was looking over my old copy of Skills and Powers. Fighters were hardly allocated any points. A Wizard or a Cleric could buy every single fighter ability and still have enough points left over for some cool powers. That suggests that when one quantifies the design of the classes into discrete components and assigns value to them that some classes were inherently more powerful than others if they are taken as a whole." D: "Interesting. That possibly explains why fighters in future editions have been getting relative boosts in power compared to clerics and wizards. I wonder if the game designers behind the curtain actually do have mathematical models for character balance or if it is just done by feel and instinct" F: "Well my brother has a game company and the way he does it is..." B: "Hey lets get back to the idea of more customizable characters... is there any way D&D Next could have some point buy customization and still be workable? Perhaps if all characters started with the same pool of points?" Mike Mearls: "Hey I was reading this discussion and there are some elements of Fantasy Hero I really liked. Our surveys have shown that customization of characters is very important to the players. We are going with the idea of themes and backgrounds as a class independent overlay that people can optionally add to their characters to provide more depth and customization. Tell us what you think". Unproductive Discussion A: “I hope D&D Next has all the abilities of a class broken down into a point value, and I can build the character I want using points… for example I can get a wizard with more hitpoints but less spells!” B: “That’s not D&D, that’s GURPS” [/QUOTE]

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