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<blockquote data-quote="rounser" data-source="post: 5982226" data-attributes="member: 1106">I'm out because with core races and classes, as 4E FR proves, the designers feel obliged to retcon and kludge in entire empires of dragon mans, pretend eladrin were always there, pretend &quot;warlords&quot; were always a feature of FR's adventuring companies etc.&nbsp; Retcons due to mistakes made with the core implied setting are ugly, and slaps a &quot;not compatible with D&amp;D worlds&quot; sticker on the whole edition for me.Bad core material turns up everywhere and gets into everything - ugly dragonborn artwork all through the books, NPC warlords in adventures, PCs designed with rules you don't use etc.It's not about wanting you to not have fun, it's just that my willingness to &quot;fix&quot; a game calling itself D&amp;D that can't even get the D&amp;D core implied setting right just drops right down to nil.&nbsp; In other words, I don't believe in WOTC's D&amp;D worlds anymore so long as they continue to make this mistake.&nbsp; These additions are not a core part of FR or Greyhawk, nor any homebrew I'd be interested in running, so why bother with a game that insists on imposing it's special needs on established settings through retcons and kludges, and needs extensive &quot;weeding&quot; before being suitable for homebrew play?I'm not denying you your anthropomorphic dragons.&nbsp; I'm just saying that they belong in a supplement.&nbsp; 4E FR proves what happens when they insist otherwise, and guess what, they're insisting on a &quot;special needs&quot; edition of D&amp;D all over again.&nbsp; Not hanging around for the retcons and weeding.&nbsp; No mechanics will help if I disbelieve in their worlds.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="rounser, post: 5982226, member: 1106"] I'm out because with core races and classes, as 4E FR proves, the designers feel obliged to retcon and kludge in entire empires of dragon mans, pretend eladrin were always there, pretend "warlords" were always a feature of FR's adventuring companies etc. Retcons due to mistakes made with the core implied setting are ugly, and slaps a "not compatible with D&D worlds" sticker on the whole edition for me. Bad core material turns up everywhere and gets into everything - ugly dragonborn artwork all through the books, NPC warlords in adventures, PCs designed with rules you don't use etc. It's not about wanting you to not have fun, it's just that my willingness to "fix" a game calling itself D&D that can't even get the D&D core implied setting right just drops right down to nil. In other words, I don't believe in WOTC's D&D worlds anymore so long as they continue to make this mistake. These additions are not a core part of FR or Greyhawk, nor any homebrew I'd be interested in running, so why bother with a game that insists on imposing it's special needs on established settings through retcons and kludges, and needs extensive "weeding" before being suitable for homebrew play? I'm not denying you your anthropomorphic dragons. I'm just saying that they belong in a supplement. 4E FR proves what happens when they insist otherwise, and guess what, they're insisting on a "special needs" edition of D&D all over again. Not hanging around for the retcons and weeding. No mechanics will help if I disbelieve in their worlds. [/QUOTE]

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