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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5982484" data-attributes="member: 42582">Whereas the post that I responded too said that 4e players are calling for fighters with spells. That's a pretty unambiguous attribution of preference and/or experience to others.Another assymetry in some of these discussions, in my view: it is generally taken for granted that those who don't like metagame mechanics will get a game that can be played without them (hit points are the only point of real controversy here, in part because it is highly debatable that they are anything but a metagame mechanic). Whereas those who call for a mechanical solution to the 15 minute day - who in many cases, on this board at least, seem to overlap with those who tolerate or enjoy metagame mechanics (a non-accidental correlation, in my view, because of the broader connections to non-illusionist play) - are often told by those who are getting their non-metagame fighter to get back in their boxes and suck it up.I say: if you play 4e without recognising the metagame mechanics, then you are probably doing it wrong; and if you don't like metagame mechanics, don't play 4e.Applying the same reasoning to (what we know of) D&Dnext: if you play D&Dnext without wandering monsters or similar rapid respawning ("Schroedinger's Monsters"), or without illusionism that makes the 15 minute day go away despite the mechanical incentives, then you are probably doing it wrong (beause the 15 minute day will break out, producing a breakdown in class balance); hence if you don't like that sort of game, don't play D&Dnext.Which is fine as far as it goes - I'm probably going to take my own advice - but seems an odd way to build a unity edition.In other words, you can't both have mechanics that mandate a certain play style (either Schroedinger's Monsters or illusionism, perhaps both), and have mechanics are neutral across playstyles.</blockquote>

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