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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5984252" data-attributes="member: 87792">Yes.  They pinpoint to third party observers where the problem is.  And here you are not only messing up your tactics, you are missing the point of the rogue rules and ignoring the facts presented.  The two weapon ranger gains +2 to hit, which is nice - but in play there are only two classes that routinely have lower ACs; wizards and sorcerors.  The rogue gains +2 to hit and sneak attack.  A much greater reward. The rogue does +2d6 sneak attack damage (or more) at heroic tier.  Of these, the first d6 is mathematically needed to make up for the rogue using a small weapon rather than a two handed weapon.  The second d6 brings them up to striker level.  So any turn you aren't getting sneak attack you might as well not be a striker at all - a leader or defender with a two handed weapon normally hits harder than you do.  The +2 to hit for the ranger from CA is nice.  The +2d6 damage for the rogue from CA allows you to do your job in combat - and literally any turn you aren't attacking with CA you aren't doing your job properly. The avenger was no poorer an example than the rogue.  You might have been on sturdier ground if you'd used the barbarian and the two weapon ranger.  Except the Barbarian can take a hit.  And rages like a maniac.  And mine was that if you try to use a rogue like a two weapon ranger you are displaying a level of tactical ineptitude that means you are unable to do your job despite having all the necessary tools available.  It's a matter of what used to be called 'Player Skill'.  That you are actually in character trying to win by whatever conditions your character thinks are appropriate.  This.  A thousand times this.  The 'Pogo stick fighter' (a fighter who bounces through the dungeon on a pogo stick, wieldign a flail) is an option in any edition of D&D.  It just isn't much of one.  Imbalance combined with any form of actually caring about outcomes whether in character or out of character cuts down on the play styles that are actually viable.  BMX Bandit may be interesting in his own right but isn't worth playing with Angel Summoner in the party.</blockquote>

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