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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 5985594" data-attributes="member: 6696971">Reread my reductio ad absurdem.&nbsp; It states &quot;makes use of a ball&quot;.&nbsp; It does not state that is the only relevant implement involved.&nbsp; What is interesting here is how revealing this is.&nbsp; Your first thought was &quot;field hockey uses sticks&quot;.&nbsp; Yes, I agree.&nbsp; It does.&nbsp; And it is a very important distinction.&nbsp; Notice how when you reduce sports to their base, common elements you lose important nuance (such as making use of sticks as implements):For Field Hockey (DnD), &quot;Sticks as Implements&quot; (Arcane) is an &quot;Imperative Descriptor&quot; (Keyword) and informs the &quot;Game Dynamics&quot; (Fiction) to the &quot;Participants and Spectators&quot; (DM, PCs and their Players).&nbsp; Reducing the game to 5 base elements that it shares with other games misrepresents the nuance and dynamics of the game, such that it can appear superficially congruent (from a player's and spectator's perspective)&nbsp; with extremely disparate games.As above, these elements all inform the Fiction in the same way the Sticks inform the Game Dynamics for Field Hockey.&nbsp; If you do not like Keywords as descriptors that is one thing.&nbsp; If it doesn't work for you, ok.&nbsp; But to say that they do not inform the Fiction because you do not like them is more than a stretch.&nbsp; They are fully functional and are put to use by people to create DnD-relevant fiction by way of the mechanics.When I'm thinking about cars, the Keywords Red, Scissor-Doors, Coupe, Bull Logo, Gratuitous Vents conjure specific images in my mind...and, if I must, I can use those words to weave &quot;Lamborghini-relevant&quot; fiction.&nbsp; Give me relevant information such as Straightaway, Heavy Cambered Bank, Slick Surface, Diablo (or Aventador...go from Diablo to Aventador and I have an enormously different Lamborghini fiction based on their modus operandi)...then I can really go to town.&nbsp; The same applies when I'm playing 4e and I see Arcane, Fear, Implement or Martial, Rattling, Weapon as Keywords.&nbsp; I can create fiction on those alone.&nbsp; Once you give me those Keywords, if you give me relevant information such as Range, Target, Defense Attacked, Damage, Effect...then I can go to town.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 5985594, member: 6696971"] Reread my reductio ad absurdem. It states "makes use of a ball". It does not state that is the only relevant implement involved. What is interesting here is how revealing this is. Your first thought was "field hockey uses sticks". Yes, I agree. It does. And it is a very important distinction. Notice how when you reduce sports to their base, common elements you lose important nuance (such as making use of sticks as implements): For Field Hockey (DnD), "Sticks as Implements" (Arcane) is an "Imperative Descriptor" (Keyword) and informs the "Game Dynamics" (Fiction) to the "Participants and Spectators" (DM, PCs and their Players). Reducing the game to 5 base elements that it shares with other games misrepresents the nuance and dynamics of the game, such that it can appear superficially congruent (from a player's and spectator's perspective) with extremely disparate games. As above, these elements all inform the Fiction in the same way the Sticks inform the Game Dynamics for Field Hockey. If you do not like Keywords as descriptors that is one thing. If it doesn't work for you, ok. But to say that they do not inform the Fiction because you do not like them is more than a stretch. They are fully functional and are put to use by people to create DnD-relevant fiction by way of the mechanics. When I'm thinking about cars, the Keywords Red, Scissor-Doors, Coupe, Bull Logo, Gratuitous Vents conjure specific images in my mind...and, if I must, I can use those words to weave "Lamborghini-relevant" fiction. Give me relevant information such as Straightaway, Heavy Cambered Bank, Slick Surface, Diablo (or Aventador...go from Diablo to Aventador and I have an enormously different Lamborghini fiction based on their modus operandi)...then I can really go to town. The same applies when I'm playing 4e and I see Arcane, Fear, Implement or Martial, Rattling, Weapon as Keywords. I can create fiction on those alone. Once you give me those Keywords, if you give me relevant information such as Range, Target, Defense Attacked, Damage, Effect...then I can go to town. [/QUOTE]

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