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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5986456" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>Here is the 1st level Moldvay Basic spell list, as best I recall it:</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">*Charm Person</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">*Detect Magic</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">*Floating Disk</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">*Hold Portal</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">*Light</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">*Magic Missile</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">*Protection From Evil</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">*Read Languages</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">*Read Magic</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">*Shield</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">*Sleep</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">*Ventriloquism</p><p></p><p>Now, here are their mechanical implementations in 4e:</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">*Charm Person - Suggestion, a per encounter cantrip that permits Arcana in place of Diplomacy </p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">*Detect Magic - part of the Arcana skill</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">*Floating Disk - a 1st level ritual</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">*Light - an at-will cantrip</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">*Magic Missile - an at-will attack</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">*Read Languages - a 1st level ritual</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">*Read Magic - part of the Arcana skill</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">*Shield - a 2nd level encounter utility power</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">*Sleep - a 1st level daily attack power</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">*Ventriloquism - Ghost Sound, an at-will cantrip</p><p></p><p>There is no clear equivalent, in 4e, to Protection from Evil. A daily utility that grants a power bonus to defences, and to saves vs Charm affects, would probably do as a susbtitute.</p><p></p><p>There is also no clear equivalent to Hold Portal - I think the Mage Hand cantrip could be used to push a door shut, and I think I would be happy to allow a wizard who was sustaining such a Mage Hand to make an opposed Arcana check for anyone trying to open the door. If you want something better than that, a per-encounter Utility that locks a door within R:10 and makes it a Hard DC to open would probably be OK.</p><p></p><p>So what are the spell effects that aren't or can't be replicated in 4e?</p><p></p><p>It's true that 4e uses more uniform mechanics than earlier editions - but if the only difference between a sword and a finger of death is that the latter bypasses the hit point mechanic, that's not a meaningful roleplaying difference (a sword as much as magic can stop a person's heart beating, if used properly). It's a purely mechanical difference that doesn't correlate to anything meaningful in the fiction.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 5986456, member: 42582"] Here is the 1st level Moldvay Basic spell list, as best I recall it: [indent]*Charm Person *Detect Magic *Floating Disk *Hold Portal *Light *Magic Missile *Protection From Evil *Read Languages *Read Magic *Shield *Sleep *Ventriloquism[/indent] Now, here are their mechanical implementations in 4e: [indent]*Charm Person - Suggestion, a per encounter cantrip that permits Arcana in place of Diplomacy *Detect Magic - part of the Arcana skill *Floating Disk - a 1st level ritual *Light - an at-will cantrip *Magic Missile - an at-will attack *Read Languages - a 1st level ritual *Read Magic - part of the Arcana skill *Shield - a 2nd level encounter utility power *Sleep - a 1st level daily attack power *Ventriloquism - Ghost Sound, an at-will cantrip[/indent] There is no clear equivalent, in 4e, to Protection from Evil. A daily utility that grants a power bonus to defences, and to saves vs Charm affects, would probably do as a susbtitute. There is also no clear equivalent to Hold Portal - I think the Mage Hand cantrip could be used to push a door shut, and I think I would be happy to allow a wizard who was sustaining such a Mage Hand to make an opposed Arcana check for anyone trying to open the door. If you want something better than that, a per-encounter Utility that locks a door within R:10 and makes it a Hard DC to open would probably be OK. So what are the spell effects that aren't or can't be replicated in 4e? It's true that 4e uses more uniform mechanics than earlier editions - but if the only difference between a sword and a finger of death is that the latter bypasses the hit point mechanic, that's not a meaningful roleplaying difference (a sword as much as magic can stop a person's heart beating, if used properly). It's a purely mechanical difference that doesn't correlate to anything meaningful in the fiction. [/QUOTE]
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