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<blockquote data-quote="Pickles JG" data-source="post: 5988102" data-attributes="member: 61501">They are not labels. They are descriptions of what the class ought to do in combat &amp; a design tool WOTC used well in 4e.&nbsp; They are combat roles given that 4e is pretty much balanced around combat, &amp; that is obviously not to everyone's taste but beside the point here. &nbsp;Pre 3e classes did not have this kind of balance or clear function in a party in combator even accross&nbsp; the other pillars (yuk I hate that term).&nbsp;Classes were supposed to provide this same sort of balance in all editions ie give everyone an opportunity to shine. However this did not work very well in earlier editions. A fighter out damaged a 3e rogue as well as having higher AC &amp; more hit points. A rogue's out of combat abilities could be trivially outdone by a wizard with a few spells etc *&nbsp; If you played D&amp;D combat heavy like I have always done rogues were just poor. &nbsp;&nbsp;* At some high enough level. I did not have much problem with wizards outshining other classes in the levels I preferred 3-9 ish. The reasons I did not like higher level play was pretty much all about how the magic overwhelmed everything else.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Pickles JG, post: 5988102, member: 61501"] They are not labels. They are descriptions of what the class ought to do in combat & a design tool WOTC used well in 4e. They are combat roles given that 4e is pretty much balanced around combat, & that is obviously not to everyone's taste but beside the point here. Pre 3e classes did not have this kind of balance or clear function in a party in combator even accross the other pillars (yuk I hate that term). Classes were supposed to provide this same sort of balance in all editions ie give everyone an opportunity to shine. However this did not work very well in earlier editions. A fighter out damaged a 3e rogue as well as having higher AC & more hit points. A rogue's out of combat abilities could be trivially outdone by a wizard with a few spells etc * If you played D&D combat heavy like I have always done rogues were just poor. * At some high enough level. I did not have much problem with wizards outshining other classes in the levels I preferred 3-9 ish. The reasons I did not like higher level play was pretty much all about how the magic overwhelmed everything else. [/QUOTE]

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