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<blockquote data-quote="DEFCON 1" data-source="post: 9762269" data-attributes="member: 7006">There's also of course the &quot;old school&quot; method for solving all of this... which is that you don't make a skill check to find any secret door at all.&nbsp; Rather, players just say they are going to search certain areas... and if there is a &quot;secret door&quot; in the 10'x10' section they are searching, then the DM just gives verbal descriptive clues as to what the players are finding.&nbsp; Then the players describe their actions to continue to figure out what they are looking at, the DM gives even more details about it, until finally the players accurately state what the secret door is and what they are doing to try and open it.&nbsp; No need for skill checks at all.I think a lot of us have been programmed over the years to have secret doors end up being like they are in video games like Baldur's Gate-- where there's nothing to actually find until a successful check is made, and then suddenly POOF! the purple outline shows up in a spot that says &quot;This section is now a secret door!&quot;&nbsp; But in truth, every secret door should have a description as to how and why they are hidden and secret, and a method for players to describe how to get around that hidden description.&quot;Why is that door a 'secret door'?&quot;&quot;Because it is behind a tapestry hanging on the wall.&quot;&quot;So I can find it just by looking behind the tapestry?&quot;&quot;Yep&quot;&quot;And I don't need to make any skill check?&quot;&quot;No.&nbsp; The door is right there.&nbsp; Once you get past the thing that made it &quot;secret&quot;, it's no longer &quot;secret&quot;.&nbsp; It's just a door.&quot;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="DEFCON 1, post: 9762269, member: 7006"] There's also of course the "old school" method for solving all of this... which is that you don't make a skill check to find any secret door at all. Rather, players just say they are going to search certain areas... and if there is a "secret door" in the 10'x10' section they are searching, then the DM just gives verbal descriptive clues as to what the players are finding. Then the players describe their actions to continue to figure out what they are looking at, the DM gives even more details about it, until finally the players accurately state what the secret door is and what they are doing to try and open it. No need for skill checks at all. I think a lot of us have been programmed over the years to have secret doors end up being like they are in video games like Baldur's Gate-- where there's nothing to [I]actually[/I] find until a successful check is made, and then suddenly [I]POOF[/I]! the purple outline shows up in a spot that says "This section is now a secret door!" But in truth, every secret door [I]should[/I] have a description as to how and why they are hidden and secret, and a method for players to describe how to get around that hidden description. "Why is that door a 'secret door'?" "Because it is behind a tapestry hanging on the wall." "So I can find it just by looking behind the tapestry?" "Yep" "And I don't need to make any skill check?" "No. The door is right there. Once you get past the thing that made it "secret", it's no longer "secret". It's just a door." [/QUOTE]

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