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Message: <blockquote data-quote="TheClone" data-source="post: 5243537" data-attributes="member: 90399">I guess it is somehow a problem that higher level fights with 3e-D&D tend to grow shorter instead of longer. That makes it all very tricky. It can become a TPK or a glorious victory in a moments notice. Just one spell rolled fine or the fighter not hitting one full attack. This is bound to the rules.Some ideas I have on your problem:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">If the players want to sneak just to use their skills more often and show their value, integrate some cover on the walls to allow them to sneak about inside the room, next to the combat.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">As mentioned before: Subdue the paladin. You don't have to kill him, at least not with intelligent or humanoid monsters. Use him as a hostage. Let the monsters occupy the crossing where the "sneak path" leads of and the rest of the party is tripped inside the dungeon. Let the monsters send a runner to fetch an additional group of monsters form the next room (and the runner really can run/hustle/double move because he has not to be quit. With all that opposition and maybe the way back blocked, there will be very interesting negotiations or a quick surrender. Or even a TPK, but that seems not to be your groups style (although while talking about consequences, character death is one and should not be ruled out, it gives some adrenalin, at least for me). So with the whole party subdued/surrendered/whatever nobody has to abandon his character. Start a rescuing mission (afterwards players may even chose to switch to the rescuing character and let go their old one). That involves consequences by loosing the loves character for soem time, but it not a severe as a TPK.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Talk to the players out of game. If they really are not on the mood to form a group and work together, it will always be a problem for a D&D game (and most other rpgs, too). It is really difficult to dm and the rules are not written for that. Maybe they can accept that and change minds.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Do not brute-force or railroad them into a group play. If they don't want to work together, nobody can force them. It's sad, but that also means that playing published adventures will always be a problem and will invole lots of work for you as a DM. I don't know if you want to do that, but if not, tell your players. The DM always has to spend most of the time and the players should award that and not burden you with more work. Maybe that's a reason that helps them.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Give the players some warning of the upcoming encounter. Strange smells (orcs never brush teeth or whipe the poo from their asses <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> ), a succeeded listen or spot check, a stealth scout. All that may give them the clue "There's an encounter in the next room!" Now the players can think about tactics. The stealthy guys may sneak around. The paladin waits some rounds or until the sneaky guys give signal and then the party rushes in from both sides and catch the monsters off guard. That'll be an impressive bloodshed...</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Maybe it's just about the sneaky guys wanting to have their big (ego) moment, jumping from the shadows and doing sneaky weaky LOTS of damage. If it_'s just about those numbers and a flashy entry to combat, you may use the terrain. Put some interesting items or terrain so that it is reachable much more easier from the paladins entrance. Provide enough cover (or smokesticks) to let them sneak in with the rest of the party and use the options available. If the monsters are of guard, there may be an unattended ballista ("You backstab him with a f**king ballista?!"). Surely after the first shot, the monster will attack the shooter. Maybe just by first disabling the ballista (wooden weapon parts break easily, 3e has rules for that) and giving the PC a chance to flee and hide again. Maybe a bucket of alchemists fire and a balcony? Maybe a pit and a chance to bull rush the monsters playing poker right from their chars (AND a buck of alchemists fire, that'll be cool). And so on, be creative <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></li> </ul>That's it from me, hope it helps.P.S.: I love the US for their handling of the totally insulting and brutal word beginning with f <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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