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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 9217696" data-attributes="member: 4937">Yes, and no.&nbsp; Most successful systems extend their rules system fairly extensively.&nbsp; If they don't, it's a pretty good sign they aren't that successful.I mean consider popular rules sets like D20, D6, BRP, etc.&nbsp; Each book that gets published tends to extend the rule set.&nbsp; How long were the rules of 3.5e D&amp;D for example?&nbsp; Maybe 8000 pages?&nbsp; A rules set like D6 before it went defunct had rules in the region of two or three thousand pages.&nbsp; BRP is a bit smaller, but once you fold in the Grimoire and the Pulp Rules and so forth you are still getting close to the 1000 page mark.&nbsp; I maintain that most tables playing crunchy systems actually have over 100 pages of house rules they just don't take the time to document them.&nbsp; The are generally of the form of &quot;this section is included in the rules&quot; and &quot;this section is excluded&quot;, so that if you wrote them down in the most compact form they'd look like the legalese of a typical Federal law passed by Congress.&nbsp; If you tried to create a house rules document for all the Dragon articles, rulings, third party content, and expansions that you allowed at the table, you'd quickly need a very long document.Beyond that, I'm a big believer in subsystems.&nbsp; Can your game system cover mass combat?&nbsp; Can your game system do good chase scenes?&nbsp; Can your game system handle underwater combat?&nbsp; Crafting?&nbsp; Disease?&nbsp; Sanity?&nbsp; Naval combat?&nbsp; Aerial combat? Dynasties?&nbsp; Economics?&nbsp;&nbsp; What happens with your game if your players try to make the focus of the game something other than the game's core envisioned gameplay?&nbsp; What happens if you start playing Space Truckers in a Star Wars game?&nbsp; Well, you get out your Traveller rulebook and you start looking for inspiration.&nbsp; What happens if in your D&amp;D game you start doing mass combat and dynastic play?&nbsp; Well, you get out your Pendragon or you start making things up.&nbsp; Can you handle it if your PCs in D&amp;D start playing &quot;Pirates of the Carribean&quot; and you have mass naval combat inspired by the great age of sail?&nbsp; Or you want firearms rules in your game.&nbsp; Definitely not.&nbsp;&nbsp; If I played CoC or D&amp;D 3.Xe or Star Wars D6 you'd definitely recognize the game and it might actually take a good bit of watching it before you realized that there were even house rules in play.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 9217696, member: 4937"] Yes, and no. Most successful systems extend their rules system fairly extensively. If they don't, it's a pretty good sign they aren't that successful. I mean consider popular rules sets like D20, D6, BRP, etc. Each book that gets published tends to extend the rule set. How long were the rules of 3.5e D&D for example? Maybe 8000 pages? A rules set like D6 before it went defunct had rules in the region of two or three thousand pages. BRP is a bit smaller, but once you fold in the Grimoire and the Pulp Rules and so forth you are still getting close to the 1000 page mark. I maintain that most tables playing crunchy systems actually have over 100 pages of house rules they just don't take the time to document them. The are generally of the form of "this section is included in the rules" and "this section is excluded", so that if you wrote them down in the most compact form they'd look like the legalese of a typical Federal law passed by Congress. If you tried to create a house rules document for all the Dragon articles, rulings, third party content, and expansions that you allowed at the table, you'd quickly need a very long document. Beyond that, I'm a big believer in subsystems. Can your game system cover mass combat? Can your game system do good chase scenes? Can your game system handle underwater combat? Crafting? Disease? Sanity? Naval combat? Aerial combat? Dynasties? Economics? What happens with your game if your players try to make the focus of the game something other than the game's core envisioned gameplay? What happens if you start playing Space Truckers in a Star Wars game? Well, you get out your Traveller rulebook and you start looking for inspiration. What happens if in your D&D game you start doing mass combat and dynastic play? Well, you get out your Pendragon or you start making things up. Can you handle it if your PCs in D&D start playing "Pirates of the Carribean" and you have mass naval combat inspired by the great age of sail? Or you want firearms rules in your game. Definitely not. If I played CoC or D&D 3.Xe or Star Wars D6 you'd definitely recognize the game and it might actually take a good bit of watching it before you realized that there were even house rules in play. [/QUOTE]

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